WORKERS

[Steve Tumolo]

Just like I said before. Letting the workers know how grateful we are buy taking time to say thank you will go a long way. There have been comments made on this forum and things I have heard with my own ears that really gets under my skin. It is a shame that some drivers think that workers are just drones put in place by the event organizers. Some drivers think that just because you pay an entry fee to race in a hillclimb or PHA track event all they have to do is show up and drive. And I gotta say it is not the veterans of our sport that are talking that way. It is some of the newer faces that seem to think they are special.
We as hillclimbers are a very unique bunch. Our type of racing does not breed ugly angst against fellow competitors as does other forms of racing. At Duryea I was helping Robbie and Dave with their Camaros between runs. Times were really close between us all weekend. And guess what, I ended up coming in 3rd. If I had to do it over again I would in a heartbeat. The racing at a hillclimb is just as important as the family atmosphere. And that includes EVERYONE involved. The workers need to feel like they are part of the family.


....rant over.....for now

[rallynutdon]

But one thing they do differently than some of our events is the person in charge of workers actively calls and recruits workers.

How do you know if you'll have enough workers if you don't do that? Luck?

[reddodge85]

But one thing they do differently than some of our events is the person in charge of workers actively calls and recruits workers.

How do you know if you'll have enough workers if you don't do that? Luck?

Most of them seem to assume they will just be there when they need them.

[Dogpatch]

[quote="Steve Tumolo"]. There have been comments made on this forum and things I have heard with my own ears that really gets under my skin. It is a shame that some drivers think that workers are just drones put in place by the event organizers. Some drivers think that just because you pay an entry fee to race in a hillclimb or PHA track event all they have to do is show up and drive. And I gotta say it is not the veterans of our sport that are talking that way. It is some of the newer faces that seem to think they are special.


Hey Steve

It's nice that you jump right in and participate in the forum but I'm sure everyone would rather see you come out and actually participate. I only remember seeing you at Duryea this year.

Don't be too hard on the new faces...because they are the future...and we would like to see more of yours.

I support the PHA events, the workers, the organizers and the drivers...and if I feel the need to express my opinions I will whether you agree with them or not.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR#08

[FV195]

I saw Steve @ a few hills/ working. not all ways driving.
THOR

[Matt Green]

But one thing they do differently than some of our events is the person in charge of workers actively calls and recruits workers.

How do you know if you'll have enough workers if you don't do that? Luck?

That seems to be the way a few of the event organizers operate...

[Steve Tumolo]

Kurt,

With all do respect you should know that I have been an active hillclimb worker since I was 15 years old and I am 31 now. I have been driving hills for 12 years. I was and have been one of the FEW people who show up to help set up Duryea and Pagoda hillclimbs EVERY YEAR since I was 15. I am the guy who drives to Ephrata to drop off art work and pick up Pagoda and Duryea T-shirts.
This is the first season in my 12 years of driving that I have dropped off a bit. I decided to try roadracing this year and trying to do that on top of hillclimbs was just not in the budget.
So Kurt if you think I am being a little hard on the new faces it is because this sport has been my in life for almost half of my life. And when I see new people come in and right away seem as though they want things to be "their way" it is pretty agitating.

ps: thanks for sticking up for me Thor

[reddodge85]

Couldn't have said it better myself Steve. I was thinking the same thing when I read the above. I was all set to defend you too. By the way how is the road racing going???

[JekylandHyde]

And I gotta say it is not the veterans of our sport that are talking that way. It is some of the newer faces that seem to think they are special.

Hey Steve,

Speaking as a "newer" driver, let's reflect on some of my experiences in the 3 short years I have been racing with PHA:

First year I did 3 races and was just happy to have learned how everything happens and did not volunteer or help much. I was asked, since I work for the newspaper, if I could take the results of the Reading events directly to the paper which I did. No biggie there.

I did, however, make a suggestion on this forum on a way to greatly expidite the Pagoda event which I was promptly/curtly "shut down" on by one of hte "veteran" officials. I would almost be willing to bet we could get an extra run EACH day if my suggestion would have been considered and implimented.

Things run the way they run and I learned to (mostly) keep my suggestions to myself. Maybe that's a good thing as I have lots of suggestions

Second year: At the end of Pagoda I was packed up quickly and drove my car to near the trophy area and was just hanging out when the call came for helpers to break down the hill. I volunteered to help collect hay bails ... so up the hill I go.

Anyone who has ever done hay bails knows what kind of an exercise that is. I was only in my driver's suit (shoes included!) I came back down the hill with a disgusting driver's suit to find two city kids rooting through my car. Why? Because everyone had left ... gone ... and my car was sitting there open.

Did I even get my trophy for my trouble? Nope. I was told they were all given out. People had to know I was there as my car was there and they knew I was helping with hay bails, but no one saved me my trophy. Would I have ever left my car open (t-tops out and windows down) if I had known everyone was going to split? Hell no.

I asked on this forum when/where I would get my trophy and I was told at the next event which was Giant's. A few weeks later I am sitting at the starting line of Giant's and your father told me that my trophy was there and I was suppose to go to timing over the lunch break to get it. When I followed up on that, I was given a rather tart-n-angry response that they didn't have any trophies from previous events with them and I could worry about it later. I couldn't believe the response I received seeing as I was specifically SENT to talk to them!

That is the reward that I got for volunteering to help do hay bails at Pagoda.

So let's roll around to Duryea a few weeks later ... still no trophy and we have the driver's meeting. I know for a fact that I was the first person at the driver's meeting. I was having a hard time hearing parts of the drivers meeting because some of those "veteran drivers" you refer to were talking behind me. When I asked a question at the end of the meeting it happened to be on a topic that I missed in the meeting because of this chatter ... the response I got? ... A verbal bashing in front of the entire community for not paying attention.

Gratefully 95% of the drivers there realize that the lashing said more about the person screaming at me than it did about me.

Also at Duryea, I had a "veteran" worker ask me why I never write anything in the newspaper promoting the hillclimbs. They said it seems like I only ever write "about myself and my racing." The irony is that the weekend BEFORE, I had this column in the paper promoting Duryea and inviting everyone to come out for it. ... I guess they missed that

For the record, I finally got my Pagoda trophy 3 months later at Weatherly.

2005 was the year that I learned the risks of volunteering and/or asking questions during a driver's meeting.
So now I basically pay, race and leave like a lot of other folks.

2006 was my third year, and beyond offering to take the results down to the paper forthe Reading evnets I did not offer to do much else. Matt Green did ask me on Sunday of Pagoda to help break things down. I did not even race on Sunday since it rained. In fact I didn't even have the race car there. Since Matt is a friend and it was a miserable day, I agreed to help break things down as long as I stayed around the starting area ... so I helped with the snow fencing and banners in that area.

I am a very "volunteer" oriented person as there are many organizations that I have volunteered my time to. At times I think I volunteer way too much.

I'm sorry to say, but as a "newb" in this community, my feeling on helping has been drastically affected by how I have been treated by some of the "veterans." Maybe if you are having problems finding workers, specifically at the Reading events, maybe some research into how people who volunteer are actually treated is in order. If you had my experiences, how likely would you be to volunteer again?

After some discussion with Matt Rowe, I posted a thread on the MR2 board this morning trying to recruit volunteers to work next year ... but I did that with serious apprehension as I would hate to encourage someone to spend their weekends volunteering at a hillclimb if they end up getting treated poorly.

Before you exclude the "veteran's" from sharing any fault for the lack of volunteer workers, it might behoove you to talk to some "newbs" to find out why they aren't helping, or more importantly, if they were helping why aren't they any more.

"....rant over.....for now "

[PitCrewLinda]

I have photographed from turn 5 at Weatherly for a year and half, and have come down off the hills at lunch time with the corner workers. You don't give them enough time to get their food and eat it before sending them back up the hill. (I know, I've raced back to the truck with them) They are lucky if they get 5 minutes. It was mentioned to suggest a separate line for corner workers to pick up their food first, plus a line for the drivers also. When corner workers have been "served", then open the line for the drivers.

Without well-fed corner workers...where would you be?

Linda

[Matt Rowe]

Linda,

This is the first time I have heard any complaints about the pace of the worker lunch at Weatherly so I will be sure that we take a look at what we can do differently. As the person that tries to hold the schedule I can tell you that I keep an eye on who are the last workers down at lunch and when they are done eating and use that to gauge when we can start calling for workers to head back to the hill. So if there is anyone to blame on this one it is me. The good news is I will see what we can do to fix the problem. One suggestion which works well at the other hills is to bring the lunch to the workers rather than the workers to lunch. That does have other issues but it can help keep the event moving without rushing the corner workers.

One final note, in years past and at a variety of other events workers have been given a preference in lines for food. We can mention this to the vendors and the at the driver's meeting. I agree that the workers are operating on a much tighter schedule than the driver's or spectators and should be spending ten minutes in line.

[Steve Tumolo]

Jeff,


After reading your last post I am sorry if you feel as though I was bashing anyone who is new. That is not the case. I am open to any new and different/fresh ideas to help make things better. Sometimes the problem is that I see things through many different sets of eyes because I have been around this sport for so long. I was not at Fall Jefferson but after reading about the weekend and how upset some of the drivers were because things were shut down early I saw things through the workers/officals eyes. I have been a corner worker in the pouring rain for a weekend. After lunch on sunday you really just want things to be over so you can get home.
I can count on one hand how many people active on this forum who have been at this sport longer than me. I am in no way trying to "toot my own horn". My point is that in the scope of this forum I offer a perspective of someone who has been around the block.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles Jeff. For what it is worth I never did recieve my Duryea clock trophy from a few years ago

Seriously though if you have problems like that you should get ahold of Matt Green in private and discuss them with him. He will listen and take the issue up with anyone who has to hear about it.

I agree about alot of things you say about the veteran drivers and officials. Once you are around long enough you will be one of them as well and new guys might feel the same about you. Pretty sick cycle huh ?

Thanks for the thought Urs. I have found the learning curve is really steep in roadracing. It is the most fun I have ever had in a race car though. I am about mid pack in points for the MARRS series.

[JekylandHyde]

Steve ... I love that we can "talk"

After reading your last post I am sorry if you feel as though I was bashing anyone who is new.

... I think there is always a risk of making pseudo-blanket statements about any group. I did take note that you did say "some" of the newer faces and I surely did not mean to make blanket statements about all of the veterans. I REALLY appreciate the veterans that around here as I have learned so much from them, been inspired by them and have grown because of them.

I think the point is, if people aren't working or volunteering to help ... as someone already stated above .... the organization needs to start asking why?

[Dogpatch]

Hey Steve,

Actually I didn't know that you have been active on the hills for 16 years. Hopefully it has been mostly a rewarding experience. I'm also sure that you have put in a great deal of effort in assisting where you could. I'm 30 years your senior and have been racing for 35 years. I too have put in thousands of hours working at local, Regional and National Events over the years. So while this is only my 2nd year on the hills I'm not exactly a Newbie.
Like Jeff's experiences his first year I too have experienced and witnessed occassional outbursts from some veterans. I layed low my 1st year to see what was going on and who was who. I helped where and when I could. This year I am more comfortable with the people and enjoying myself. And I've worked at at least three or four events including your home ground Pagoda and Duryea. And when Duryea was boycotted by some...I attended.
Just because people are new doesn't mean that they don't know anything or are blind to whats happening around them at events. We see some things that aren't right and we are asking why, and trying to solicit solutions through the forum. We also see the things that are done right and our hats are off to everyone who does their part.
Questions to be raised:

1. Who is Nelson's back up for timing. Should he not attend for some reason who can do that job. Who does the timing equipment belong to and would it still be available if Nelson or BMR doesn't want to play any more?

2. Rick seems to be our resident electrical genius and takes care of communications. Who could step in for him if need be.?

3. J.W. stepped down as Tech Inspector...where's the replacement or replacements?

4. Workers: the pool is large and most everyone will pitch in when asked, and many don't need to be asked. Distance is the killer for a lot of drivers being able to work. I try to get to the event as early as possible to work if needed.

5. Course Workers: This seems to be the biggest problem. Recruiting course workers is obviously difficult. Retaining them is harder. Good course workers are certainly a rare bird indeed. They are the ones with training and experience. They are the ones who's face you would like to see when you have an incident on course. You can't just take a body and put him/her on course unprepared. And you shouldn't waste the best course workers by putting them at turn-around at Duryea either. Tim with NEPA seems to have the right idea with his formula. More attention should be paid to ensure it gets implemented in a continuing and consistent manner.

With problems and all...the good far out weighs the bad and I plan to continue supporting the PHA events and sharing good times with new friends.

Good luck at Road Racing, but don't forget where you started.

Best Regards,

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

[Steve Tumolo]

Kurt,

No hard feelings here, we are cool. Of the questions you asked numbers 1,2,& 3 are very pressing indeed. Rick and Nelson do an amazing job and there will come a day when they decide to hand it over. There is no handbook for what they do with comm. and timing. My personal hope is that someone comes along that has a strong grasp of how the systems work so Rick and Nelson can take them under their wings and show them the ins and outs. I am pretty sure Blue Mountain Region owns the timing equipment used at most of the PHA events.
JW will be missed at events. At least we already have a small handful of tech inspectors. The job of tech is pretty well laid out from an "official" stand point.

In my opinion I think it is time for the issue of workers to come in front of PHA as a whole. All of the events that are under the PHA banner are in the same boat. I don't know if something like workers for events is in the scope of the PHA or if that soley rests on individual regions. But at least at PHA meetings reps from every region are present. Maybe there can be some sort of round table discussion about it.

Don't worry Kurt, when I can make it to an event at least to work I will be there. Hopefully next year I will be able to compete at a few more events. A new engine will be between the shock towers and there is a few more records I need yet

[TKnorr]

Possible solutions to the Workers (F&C) problem:
1. First, let's not call them workers. Let's refer to them for what they are... F&C personnel.
2. To maintain our current core of workers, we all need to show appreciation for the important role they serve. Further, they must all be treated in a respectful manner with appropriate civility.
3. The NEPA Workers Series has workeds but it has not totally solved the problem. As a result of this program, NEPA does have a larger base of workers. This program will be continued.
4. All drivers must assist in Regional affairs focused on running Time Trial Events including the drafting of F&C personnel. The recruitment of potential officials (especially young folks) who have an interest in racing is crucial. Encouraging them to join SCCA is a definite plus (Free Temporary SCCA membership could help facilitate this process)
5. The Weatherly Hillclimb Assoc. is currently soliciting local community members to serve as F&C personnel. A number have already made a commitment. NEPA will train these folks this Winter. Other events may want to follow this model.
6. Contacting NEDIV Regional Executives to solicit F&C personnel has worked. The many club racing F&C personnel really enjoyed the Giant.
7. A data base of F&C personnel with their phone numbers and email addresses needs to be developed and made available to each region. In addition, it may be worth considering appointing a PHA member to answer inquiries regarding F&C. This person contact info could be place on the PHA website.
8. Attend a region's meetings that conducts Time Trials to determine what you can do to help. Not unlike many other regions, NEPA has a small core of people who are involved in all of our events (Club Racing, Solo II and Time Trials). Any additional involvement will result in better venues for all.
Many others have presented legitimate ideas. Our PHA Critique Meeting will be conducted at 3 P.M. prior to our PHA Banquet at the Morgantown Holiday Inn. Specifics will be found in the upcoming newsletter. Come and express your concerns and ideas.
Tom Knorr

[Matt Green]

Questions to be raised:



1. Who is Nelson's back up for timing. Should he not attend for some
reason who can do that job. Who does the timing equipment belong to and
would it still be available if Nelson or BMR doesn't want to play any
more?



2. Rick seems to be our resident electrical genius and takes care of
communications. Who could step in for him if need be.?



3. J.W. stepped down as Tech Inspector...where's the replacement or
replacements?



4. Workers: the pool is large and most everyone will pitch in when
asked, and many don't need to be asked. Distance is the killer for a lot
of drivers being able to work. I try to get to the event as early as
possible to work if needed.



5. Course Workers: This seems to be the biggest problem. Recruiting
course workers is obviously difficult. Retaining them is harder. Good
course workers are certainly a rare bird indeed. They are the ones with
training and experience. They are the ones who's face you would like to
see when you have an incident on course. You can't just take a body and
put him/her on course unprepared. And you shouldn't waste the best
course workers by putting them at turn-around at Duryea either. Tim with
NEPA seems to have the right idea with his formula. More attention
should be paid to ensure it gets implemented in a continuing and
consistent manner.

A few thoughts. Keep in mind I am about to share some thoughts and
ideas that I might normally hold back, but I'm trying to lay it all out
here. Stick it out to the end and you'll see why.



#1 and 2- there are a few of us who could step in and cover if something
happened to Rick and/or Nelson (albeit not to their level of expertise
and dedication). Most of the equipment belongs to BMR. Unfortunately,
the few of us who could best cover their jobs are already strapped with
other duties.



#3- There is an issue there which I have been trying to resolve since
the beginning of the season. To this point, those who have been
approached have been unwilling/unable to do it. The list of qualified
candidates is short. Several solutions have been discussed, including
elimination of that position by placing the responsibility where it
should be- on the individual events. We still have several very competent Tech Inspectors who I'm sure will do a great job and step up to the task.



#4- We all need to stop complaining and yelling about the lack of
workers and start asking nicely to everyone we know, and not just the
ones we think might do it. It is up to ALL of us to supply candidates,
and it's up to the events to give them a reason to stay. This goes for
setup as well as working the course itself. I know all about distance.
I got Rose Valley restarted by making no less than 10-12 trips of 3
hours each direction to gather support, meet with the Fire Co, get
sponsorship, etc.



#5- I think that being critical of Pagoda and Duryea workers and
organization is a bit narrow-viewed. Yes, I spoke to Ron and Joe about
the situation at Pagoda (not Duryea) and I spoke to Mike (our worker
chief) and all are aware of a misunderstanding. I was hoping that Ron
and Joe would return to Duryea so that things could be made right, but
they did not, and that is our loss.

That being said, Duryea and Pagoda have the most long-standing worker pool of any hill. We also have someone who contacts people in advance. We have retained those workers for this long period by accomodating them with the assignments they desire. What happened at Pagoda was that most stations were staffed properly, and Ron and Joe were used to fill holes in the staffing. From talking to those guys, it was not where they were used, but moreso how and how they were treated, that was the issue. I have addressed this with the appropriate people, and I hope that by being aware of this, they will not repeat it. At the same time, I am not saying that Duryea and Pagoda are being done the "best" way. It's obvious we need to improve and learn from some other events, but some other events need to learn from us too.

What needs to be understood here is one fundamental fact- We cannot afford to view workers, drivers, officials, and organizers as separate groups. They are all intertwined and they should be, since without *all* of them, we would have no event. It's that simple.

We need help in all areas, and we need it from those who stand to benefit most from the help- and that is EVERY participant on EVERY level of our program. I would not advocate a forced program requiring people to give something to get something, I am simply saying that unless we *all* do something, we'll *all* wind up with nothing.

[Matt Rowe]

Possible solutions to the Workers (F&C) problem:
7. A data base of F&C personnel with their phone numbers and email addresses needs to be developed and made available to each region. In addition, it may be worth considering appointing a PHA member to answer inquiries regarding F&C. This person contact info could be place on the PHA website.

Tom, you make a number of good points but I highlighted one in particular to clarify. We already have a worker representative listed on the website. Jen DeHart volunteered (opkay I volunteered her) two years ago and has been fielding calls from workers since then.

One other point, the term "worker" has been discussed recently on many different levels in SCCA and was actualy changed in the TTR to "volunteer." The change was made to more accurately reflect the type attitude of the individuals offering their time as well as the remind us all of the respect that they deserve. It's one of my goals over the winter to start introducing this term. While F&C does reflect the description for some of the positions needed, there is certainly a need for more than just F&C volunteers.

[Mel Horn]

5. The Weatherly Hillclimb Assoc. is currently soliciting local community members to serve as F&C personnel. A number have already made a commitment. NEPA will train these folks this Winter. Other events may want to follow this model.

This is a great idea. These events are on their perhaps third generation of spectators. I'll bet a few of them have thought about asking!

[TKnorr]

Thank you for the clarification Matt. My appologies to Jen. I knew Jen was coordinating all "volunteers" but I did not notice that she was listed on our web site as a coordinator. Need to be more observant.
Tom Knorr