Sent home early from Jefferson...

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 pm

Well Lets get this going.

First let me say that I did enjoy the event, the commraderie and the food... and any chance to run the car is great.

After a rain filled Sat ( I chose not to chance running on slicks) I thought that we should have gotten more than 2 sessions on Sunday. A decision to wrap it up very early ( around 3 pm) was made without the courtesy of a drivers meeting. There seemed to be plenty of time to run two groups again... and if not certainly cutting back to two timed runs would easily have been do-able (in my opinion). If there were circumstances I don't know about than tell me. Otherwise I feel short changed.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

dspgti · Post by **dspgti** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:57 pm

Quote overheard at the post event party:

"Entry Fee.......................................................... $145"
"Cost of the tow, lodging, meals and expenses.......$1,000"
"Two Timed Runs.................................................Priceless"
"There's other cards and then there's SCCA."

Question posed at the post party:
" Who had the most track time?"
Answer:
Robbie Rohrbach. Had the whole tract to himself for the rest of the afternoon.

Just observations from a bystander.

Dave Y.

Post by **Rich Rock** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:38 pm

I too would like to know exactly why the event ended the way it did.

Rich Rock

RX-Midget · Post by **RX-Midget** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:47 pm

It seems that in the Spring '06 Jefferson event, we had 80 entries and we got 3 runs (full 3 laps) on Sunday. The '05 Fall Jefferson netted us 6, 3 lap sessions that weekend (at least 3 were Sunday), but at the Fall event this weekend with only 55 or so entries we only got 2 runs on Sunday.

I would have hoped that due to conditions on Sat, we could have had more time on course on Sunday. I hope it wasn't an issue of wanting to pack up and get on the road for work the next day since for most it was a holiday.

I also feel that it was an expesive 9 laps (1 session Sat, 2 Sun).

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:48 pm

The last run ended at 3:20. It took 2 hours and 20 minutes to run that run. We wre informed by the track that we had to be off of the track at or before 5PM. Therefore, we had 1.5 hours to make another run. There was no way that we could have made a 3 timed lap run. Even 2 laps was questionable. If we would have tried another run and something happened, such as an oil drop, we would not have had time to even finish a 2 lap run and a 1 lap run would not have been worth it.

By the way Dave, myself and the Lipperini's plus some of the workers had the same expenses (except for the entry fee) and did not have the pleasure of racing.

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:09 pm

Nelson

It was my understanding that we had the track until 6 o'clock and had to be gone by 7.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:44 pm

It was my understanding that we had the track until 6 o'clock and had to be gone by 7

No we had to be off the track at 5. We ran late Saturday and was told about it.

It seems that in the Spring '06 Jefferson event, we had 80 entries and we got 3 runs (full 3 laps) on Sunday. The '05 Fall Jefferson netted us 6, 3 lap sessions that weekend (at least 3 were Sunday), but at the Fall event this weekend with only 55 or so entries we only got 2 runs on Sunday.

Spring Jefferson: 80 entries, 875 runs given
Fall Jefferson: 70 entries, 817 runs given

I also feel that it was an expesive 9 laps (1 session Sat, 2 Sun)

We offered 4 sessions on Saturday (12 timed laps). If you only took 1 session that was your decision.

jgrausa · Post by **jgrausa** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:38 am

We offered 4 sessions on Saturday (12 timed laps). If you only took 1 session that was your decision.

Nelson,
We are all aware that we had the opportunity to run on Saturday. Most drivers recognize their safety as paramount and made the decision to run only on a dry surface. The point is that two runs on any given day is unacceptable and an examination of the situation is warranted. I strongly believe that at a minimum, drivers should expect 3 runs per day, preferrably 4. I for one am willing to consider any and all proposals to insure that this happens.
The reason we normally get more runs on a Sunday is because of the attrition rate of cars/drivers from Saturday. Obviously this didn't happen.
The registration form indicates that organizers will accept up to 100 entries, 1st off lets get that down to a reasonable number for this event - say 50. Can organizers manage a minimum of 3 runs per day with the opportunity for 4 with that number? If that number is workable, then raise the entry fee to an appropriate level to insure that 50 entries covers the costs for the track, insurance, ambulance etc - if I have to give up the hot dogs to save $, I'm willing to do that, but please keep the brownies coming.
I was under the impression that 68 drivers was about breakeven. That is $9860 in entry fees divided by 50 drivers is $197, round it up to $200. Would I pay $55 more ($27.50 per day) to get 4 runs a day? You bet I would, and I'm guessing BMR can find 49 other people who will agree.
If this is not already an agenda item for the next BMR meeting, then I would strongly urge that it be put up for consideration, with a target of implementation - Spring Jefferson.
Regards,
Joe Rausa
#23

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:38 am

Joe,

The potential problem I would see with limiting the numbers to 50 is that this is part of a championship series of 8 races. How do you tell 50 people that they are going ot have to miss out on a points event?

Pardon my ignorance as I have yet to attend a Jefferson event, but why are 3 laps necessary? Is there any reason this is done differently than the hill events. One not just one lap from a standing start?

I would think you would easily get many more runs in that way and it would mimick the 'spirit' of the other venues in the series.

Again, I have not done Jefferson yet and if there is a reason doing several laps is necessary feel free to educate me.

Thanks,

Tim Royer · Post by **Tim Royer** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:37 pm

HI,

Joe, I organize Spring Jefferson and is run under the NEPA region not BMR region.

50 car limit is not doable because there are over 80 cars that are normally attending events.

3 laps are done because there is a half lap warmup to the start and a half lap cool down before the exit. The biggest reason is you will get more laps in per weekend the more laps per session can be taken.

Normally there is no trouble with getting runs in down at Jefferson. Unfortunately I wasn't able to attend so I have no first hand knowledge about what happened down there. From what I heard it was closed up earlier then usual because of time restraints. I heard there was a late start about 9:30? Possible they had trouble rounding up workers? Catch ups and over factors affect how many runs you get also.

I know I have asked the track (Maria) to extend the EMS personnel to even 5:30-6pm in the Spring with no problems. I imagine that someone asked her about running later Saturday? If you didn’t ask that maybe why there was no consideration given.

RX-Midget · Post by **RX-Midget** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:40 pm

JekylandHyde wrote: ..... as I have yet to attend a Jefferson event, but why are 3 laps necessary? Is there any reason this is done differently than the hill events. One not just one lap from a standing start? .......

I think that it is too late to go to a single timed lap. All the records have been set with several laps to warm up the car and tires to get the best time. Going to a single lap would put most records out of reach and make the existing records an "apples-to-oranges" type comparison.

I really like the Jefferson event for the very reason that we get several laps around the course.

jgrausa · Post by **jgrausa** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:00 pm

Joe, I organize Spring Jefferson and is run under the NEPA region not BMR region.

Then the implementation for new Jefferson rules organized by BMR to begin at the next Fall Jefferson.

50 car limit is not doable because there are over 80 cars that are normally attending events.

Pardon me, but 50 cars are doable. There were 54 cars pre-registered for Fall Jefferson. If someone has to miss out because they were late in registering, I have little sympathy for them. What is most important to me is seat time and I will register early and PAY MORE to guarantee I get more seat time.

If NEPA can get me my seat time with 80 registrations, I'm all for it, but limiting participation has proven to be an effective means for getting drivers more runs and a smoother running event. You wouldn't run 120 cars at any hillclimb because driverswould'nt get enough runs. All I ask is the same standard be applied to a track event. If you can't get a reasonable number of runs, then limit participation.

As to the championship series, those drivers would be required to pre-register as everyone else.

Like I said earlier, I am open to any and all proposals to insure that we can get more reasonable time on the track.

Regards,
Joe Rausa
#23

Post by **gdh57** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:31 pm

How many entries were there?

Grace

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:44 pm

I agree with Tim and Jeff that it would not be fair to limit the event to less than the average number of drivers at each event if it is part of a Championship Series.

I know that we had five or more incidents on course that severely limited our track time ( as much as 1 1/2 hours)... you can't eliminate the unknown. But still a call for a drivers meeting would have been appreciated to keep us informed of what was being decided. Who knows maybe a solution could have been found.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:53 pm

Joe,

I was not there for the event and it sucks that you feel kinda shafted. But sometimes that is just the way it goes. You were offered timed runs on saturday. If you did not take them because you were afraid to wreck your car then that is too bad. I know how the track gets in the rain. I have been down there many times in the rain. I don't much like driving on that track in the rain. But what are you going to do about it? Either go out and be careful or sit in the pits and bitch about the rain. But you should never complain about the way you were shafted just because it was nicer on Sunday and the people who were out in the rain all day saturday working the event have had enough and are ready to go home.

If you want to limit entries then you are also limiting potential workers. Since MOST of the corner workers are crew/families of drivers where do you plan to get workers from?

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:32 pm

Steve

Most of us that didn't run on Saturaday drive open cockpit cars and own only one drivers suit. You guys with sedans have windshields, wipers and stay dry... hell you can even run the heater if you want. I for one don't want to wear a wet suit two days in a row. Not fun.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

jgrausa · Post by **jgrausa** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:46 pm

But you should never complain about the way you were shafted just because it was nicer on Sunday and the people who were out in the rain all day saturday working the event have had enough and are ready to go home.

Steve,
I must not be making my point clear enough. I do not feel shafted because it was nicer on Sunday than on Saturday. We cannot control the weather and have little control over the amount of time it takes to clean up an incident. What we do have control over is the number of people entered in an event that could reasonably expect to get 3 or 4 sessions per day in a time trial. The choice is very clear, either limit the number of entires or do a better job managing time at the event.

If you want to limit entries then you are also limiting potential workers. Since MOST of the corner workers are crew/families of drivers where do you plan to get workers from?

I did see a couple of wives volunteering to work corners (Mrs. OZ and Bertie were on corners). I also recognized a few guys from Weatherly events that were working corners. I do not know if they have family driving. I was unaware that MOST of the workers are family members. I hope their family member drivers register early for next year's event.

I agree with Tim and Jeff that it would not be fair to limit the event to less than the average number of drivers at each event if it is part of a Championship Series.

This concept puts the championship point system above the opportunity for seat time. I understand how the championship may be signirficant to some, but I would still prefer a reasonbable opportunity to get a minimum of 3 sessions per day. The point system is fun, but driving is still more fun.

Regards,
Joe Rausa
#23

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:57 pm

Joe

I really like the competition that the series affords. That said... I would certainly support another event not part of the series and to the the specifications you have layed out.

The only complaints I heard from any workers were in reference to being treated roughly by the event personnel, not about the weather, conditions, or wanting to go home early.

I'll bring the brownies Sat.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

Post by **Rich Rock** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:11 pm

Any chance a third day could be added to the Jefferson events? The track is often available on Memorial Day and Labor Day. It certainly wasn't being used on Monday.

Rich Rock

FV195 · Post by **FV195** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:58 pm

I'll second the adding a day,lets run monday as well, I'll even pay extra. I just want more track time. I ran Sat in the rain in an open car, didn't even get my suit wet! I take every chance I get to get in the car. more run on sunday would have been great. a meeting should have been called.
MY.02
THOR
FV195