Mounting a laptop PC

[JekylandHyde]

I had inquired in here before about having a laptop in the car to data log and record my runs. I was told this would be okay to do as long as the laptop was securely mounted.

That being said, would the devices used for mounting laptops in police cars pass tech?

http://www.gpscity.com/police-car.htm

I am fine with buying one of these, but I can't afford to spend the $$ and find out later this will not be allowed.

Does JW look at this mesasge board?

Thanks,

[Tim Royer]

HI,

Not my call but I don't believe any of those would stay together in a roll or impact. The only thing I have ever seen is a plate bolted through the floorboard that had 2 vertical and 2 horizonal nylon straps(I think they were old seatbelts). Anything other then that I wouldn't want riding with me.

[JekylandHyde]

They are using the bolt locations for the seat.
I would think if a seat would stay put, so would these.

I don't like the idea of mounting the laptop on the floor because I would not be able to reach it when I am belted in to initiate the software.

[Steve Tumolo]

Hang on,, are we talking about a race car or an office on wheels?

Is there a way you can strap it down to the seat by wrapping straps around the bottom or sides?

[JekylandHyde]

Hang on,, are we talking about a race car or an office on wheels?

... actually I was hoping to play solitaire while going through the elbow at Giant's :p Seriously though, data aquisition is the name of the game and it would be helpful to record the information the car is spitting out.

Is there a way you can strap it down to the seat by wrapping straps around the bottom or sides?

I'm sure that is possible. Obviously my priority is safety first.
However it gets mounted, it will be as sturdy as possible.

[RX-Midget]

Why can't you trigger the start of the D/A with the use of either a digital or analog aux input line that is hooked to a switch mounted in a easy to reach location, like on the dash. Switch from +5vdc to ground to trigger.

How is the hard drive going to like the vibration and high shock loads? I thought most D/A dumped data to a solid state drive and then you would hook that up to your lap top once in the pits.

[dspgti]

I have to admit that even though I run in Street Mod, I have not kept up to date on the rules. I'd review what is allowed for approved data aquisition and be prepared to support any rules governing the ability to change settings during your run. The feed back I hear is that there are those who are waiting for the opportunity to protest you.

Dave Y.

[JekylandHyde]

Why can't you trigger the start of the D/A with the use of either a digital or analog aux input line that is hooked to a switch mounted in a easy to reach location, like on the dash.

Unfortunately that is not how my EMS works. Regardless, there is two different pieces of software that I would like to initiate.

How is the hard drive going to like the vibration and high shock loads?

That is a good question, but the laptop I am using is not of high quality so it is worth trying out. If it fails, it fails.

I'd review what is allowed for approved data aquisition and be prepared to support any rules governing the ability to change settings during your run.

I had inquired about this in the past on here and was told that recording data from a run is okay.
As for me having the ability to change the settings, I'm flattered at the implication. I have zero knowledge on the tuning software beyond being able to initiate a data log and bring it back to review. I have no knowledge on how to change anything safely and I would be the last person to try.

At any rate, even if I could, how would that be any different than adjusting a boost level on an electronic boost controller?

The feed back I hear is that there are those who are waiting for the opportunity to protest you.

The last time I checked they have the opportunity to protest me prior to any race. There's no need to "wait" for anything. The rumors and hints of my car being protested started at my very first event two years ago. If I get protested and I am found outside the rules, so be it. I will change what I need to change.

I've read the rules and I’ve talked with Doug Gill, SCCA Solo Technical Manager, along with several people involved in operating the PA Hillclimb series. My understanding is that my car is fine for my class. SM/SM2 allows for any modification listed in the rules for all of the following classes: stock, street prepared, street touring and SM/SM2.

The SM/SM2 classes were designed as a “recruitment and retention tool by providing a natural competition outlet for auto enthusiasts using streetable sport sedans equipped with drivetrain and suspension modifications that are beyond those allowed in the Street Prepared category.” That being said, I have done my best to build my car in the spirit of what Street Mod 2 represents -– radical street cars -- while taking full advantage of what the rules have allowed. All I can say is that I hope if someone finds me worthy of protesting that they have at least embraced the full potential in this class as well. I guess in my mind, if you are not willing to truly go for what a class like Street Mod allows and grasp at the potential inherent within, why bother challenging someone who has? Why wouldn’t they find a class that more readily fits their level of commitment?

It is truly unfortunate what affect competition has on some people. There are people that would be genuinely happy to be the only person in their class so long as they could trophy at every event and proudly declare themselves champion at the end of the year. There are SM2 drivers that get elated at the rumors of combining SM with SM2 because it would increase the number of entries, but not really risk affecting their placement. There are people intent on throwing away decade-long friendships over competition. None of that is attractive to me.

I am only interested in competing against one person - myself. As long as I can see improvement in my driving and my car, I am quite satisfied whether I finish 1st or 99th. Beyond that I love seeing (and helping if possible) other people beat their own records. I am pleased if I do well overall, but that is far from my primary goal or interest in this sport. I want to improve myself and have fun. I could careless about beating anyone.

[Tim Royer]

HI,

Ditto Jeff! Your car is legal with any igntion type, here's the rule, it's all unrestricted.

D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel
systems, etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:

1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint
venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from
any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from
the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with
either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor
from Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.

[dspgti]

As I said, I'm not up on the rules. My last Solo II book is 2004. At that time the data aquisition had to be an approved system. The ability to change parameters during a run were not allowed. Whether you have the knowledge or not, a devise connected within the reach of the driver, that has the capability, is what WAS not allowed. I stress "WAS" as in past tense. Can't say whether it applys today. Just a recommendation to be aware of all the rules.

I had a mentor when I first started competing. His advise was " if you plan to win, be prepared to be scrutinized". Know the rules and follow them to a "T".

I don't know about you but I want to beat the pants off of everybody who is there, was there or will be there! Unfortunitly, I haven't been successfull at that. I still keep trying.

Dave Y.

[JekylandHyde]

Hey Dave, I do appreciate your concerns and suggestions.

I took the time yesterday to list out all of the modifications to my car along with the appropriate allowance in the 2006 rule book. I've shared that with someone at SCCA national and two officials within our region and everything seems okay. I'm comfortable with the car and like I said previously, if someone wins a protest on something, I'll change it. It's really not a big deal to me.

Another "rumor" that I constantly hear about my car is that I was running "alcohol" or "methanol" the last few years. When I race, my car is running on Sunoco 110 (or a high octane fuel that is available from the hillclimb vendor). I do use a water injection system which is 100% class legal. I have used a small amount of methanol strictly as an anti-freeze. The amount used is so minute it is laughable to consider it a fuel source. If people would have taken the time to ask questions they would understand this. Regardless, I will be sure to drain the system prior to the start of the season and I will only be using distilled water in there. This is perfectly fine by me as pure water in the system is the best performance choice anyway

I guess I am lucky because I feel like I have a hundred or so mentors in this sport. The amount support the administrators, workers and drivers give each other at the hillclimbs is wonderful.

As I indicated above, I sincerely do not race to win. I race to improve.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy if I do win, but it's not key to my enjoyment.

The rule you indicated "was" there about data aquisition is definitely not there now that I can see. Regardless, if anyone really has a problem with me recording the data of my runs (intake temps, boost level, rpms, A/F & speed) I have no problem not doing it. This really isn't a big deal to me (like most things). It would be nice to see what's going on with the car under "race conditions" since all of our tuning on the car is done wih normal street driving and on the dyno, but it is truly not necessary.

The only other thing I am interested in recording is video,
but who doesn't want video of their runs

[Steve Tumolo]

Just a question Jeff. How are your O2 sensors holding up with running leaded fuel? I was always under the impression that O2 sensors burn up and freak out when you run leaded fuel.

[JekylandHyde]

Just a question Jeff. How are your O2 sensors holding up with running leaded fuel? I was always under the impression that O2 sensors burn up and freak out when you run leaded fuel.

I ran a stock O2 sensor for years (probably over 3). I used to have an A/F gauge which would read wacky while 110 was in the tank, but after I would go back to 94 unleaded it would come alive again after a while (maybe a hundred or so miles).

Last year, I swapped to a wide-band O2 and I left the thing all year and it appears to be dead. I got another wideband now and I plan on only using the wideband for tuning/data logging. Otherwise I will use the stock O2.

When I get a chance, I want to put some healthy unleaded miles on the dead wideband to see if it will come back to life or not.

Not sure if that helps or not, but my *impression* is that the killing of narrow bands by leaded fuel is only valid while that fuel is in the tank.
It *appears* that leaded fuel will absolutely kill a wideband within 2000 miles or so.

Hope that helps.

[Tim Royer]

HI,

If you have a ECM that changes the A/F ratio using any input that the computer uses you need to disable the O2 corrections anyway. The O2 should only be used in tuning the engine to get a base line. Although using an O2 even for tuning has a margin of error. An O2 using any fuel is at best only good and calibrated for less then an hour. Using leaded fuel you only have minutes. An O2 sensor generates it's own voltage from 0-1 volt, measuring is done in millivolts by the ECM. Using a wide band takes the same reading but uses a 5 volt preheater and uses other wires used as a reference or baseline.

Any Dyno runs and tests should always be done with disabling O2. Not unplugging it! It needs to be set in the ECM, most have this option. You should always setup and run this type of computer in a "Open Loop". "Closed Loop" uses O2. You will still have all other inputs that the ECM uses to adjust timing, fuel inj millisecs, and Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). I can't get into a the whole tuning thing here, it would be a book. Just be on the safe side when doing this running A/F at 12.5/1 or +or-.3 this is a safe and powerful mix. Tune at 50PSI fuel pressure. Make sure your fuel injectors aren't running at 100% duty cycle at midrange RPM already, you'll kill your injectors. If that happens at 50PSI fuel pressure then you need bigger injectors. You can make them work A/F wise but driveablity and reliablity less.

Have fun

My 2 cents.

[JekylandHyde]

You will still have all other inputs that the ECM uses to adjust timing, fuel inj millisecs, and Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). I can't get into a the whole tuning thing here, it would be a book.

Hence the reason I have tuner figure out my car ... most of that is well beyond me

Just be on the safe side when doing this running A/F at 12.5/1 or +or-.3 this is a safe and powerful mix.

We typically shoot for 11.8-12.0 to keep it even safer, along with running race gas and water injection, we are not looking for the absolute most power, but rather a whole bunch of safe power.

Tune at 50PSI fuel pressure.

We have base-FP set at 42 psi, but our regualtor is 1:1 so at 25 psi of boost we are at a FP of 67 psi or so.

Make sure your fuel injectors aren't running at 100% duty cycle at midrange RPM already, you'll kill your injectors. If that happens at 50PSI fuel pressure then you need bigger injectors. You can make them work A/F wise but driveablity and reliablity less.

lol ... been through this game 3 times now. The turbo MR2 comes with 440 cc injectors and I orginally went up to 550s from a Supra to get to 350 rwhp. Last year I was running 850s that got me to 440 rwhp with some room to grow. Since we were planning on going well beyond that, we instsalled a new, huge fuel system with 95 lb/hr injectors (roughly 1000 cc).

Our initial base line pull this year was 493 rwhp with plenty of injector to spare. When we finish with the engine we are expecting to see 545-575 rwhp. Hopefully we will have that number in the next few weeks.

The 493 rwhp dyno is linked below. The graph is goofy because we were running off of a 13 psi wastegate spring which lost the fight at 4500 rpms and boost crept to 25 psi by 7500 rpms. We have since fixed the wastegate set up and should be able to control lower boost levels. If the graph below would have been run at 25 psi off the boost controller, that initial sharp incline would have maintained it's rate of climb and not leveled off at 4500 rpms.

The 493 graph:


My older dynos are here:
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/slips_dyno.htm

[dlascoskie]

I just have 1 question for you...............WHERE DO YOU WORK??!! .........and are the hiring?
Seriously though, I just wanted to say that I appreciate the fact that you strive to improve your driving skills and push the envelope of your machines abilities. After all, that's what racing's all about, and that's what will help the Time Trial series grow and prosper. Keep it up!

[Tim Royer]

Hi,

Jeff, do have another run with wastegate fixxed?

[JekylandHyde]

I just have 1 question for you...............WHERE DO YOU WORK??!! .........and are the hiring?

I work for the Reading Eagle newspaper and I have an extremely modest income. My car is where it's at only because of the sponsors I have. If this car was left up to my own resources, it would not be anywhere near where it's at. I've been very fortuante in sceuring and keeping good sponsors. My car is no longer a "me" project, but a "we" project as dozens of people and businessed have contributed to it's creation.

Seriously though, I just wanted to say that I appreciate the fact that you strive to improve your driving skills and push the envelope of your machines abilities. After all, that's what racing's all about, and that's what will help the Time Trial series grow and prosper. Keep it up!

Thanks a lot. I appreciate that.
I'm doing everything I've ever dreamed and never thought I could.

Jeff, do have another run with wastegate fixxed?

Not yet. As ironic as it is that I pushed a 200K original motor through 4 race seasons without much engine drama, we spun a bearing on the $7K race motor after 4 dyno pulls

The engine will be fixed by Tuesday and we are looking at installing next Fri/Sat and then I will have a week or so to put some miles on it. After that, we will be going back to the dyno again.

We took this opporutnity to fix the wastegate (actually dumped it elsewhere), got a lower-mileage alternator and fixed a few other small things so we should be good to go this time *crosses fingers*
Thanks. It's all I've ever wanted to do and never thought I could.

[Tim Royer]

HI,

Spun a bearing? I would find out why. Looking that them you can tell. Did you see the bearings? You many be pumping to much fuid in the cylinders fuel and water mix. If so you when are compressing your flattening out the bearing it would look like someone put a grinder near the top side (rod side not the cap side) of the bearing with not much wear on cap side bottom. Possible flatten at the top, most of the time having frayed sharp edges on the bearing. If it was oil starved and you seen it right away you may just see a blued possible black moltened bearing. Was it just 1 cylinder? Which one? Do the other cylinders look good? What oil pump?

P.S. don't forget to totaly disassemble and inspect every part. Wash down every, oil lines should be replaced or hours of cleaning. Of course a new filter. 1 little flake makes a whole mess again!

[JekylandHyde]

Another "rumor" that I constantly hear about my car is that I was running "alcohol" or "methanol" the last few years. When I race, my car is running on Sunoco 110 (or a high octane fuel that is available from the hillclimb vendor). I do use a water injection system which is 100% class legal. I have used a small amount of methanol strictly as an anti-freeze. The amount used is so minute it is laughable to consider it a fuel source. If people would have taken the time to ask questions they would understand this.

Hey .... imagine that methanol does appear to be legal for SM2.

Posted on SCCA.org:
Doug Gill
National Staff

In my own personal understanding and interpretation, I look at 3.6.B and when I read, "Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives are prohibited, except for those originally present in service station pump fuel," I say to myself, "Self, methanol is originally present in service station pump fuel, so by 3.6.B it's an allowed additive."

**side note - I found another solution for recording video and I will forgo data-logging at the hillclimbs so the original intent of this thread is not needed to be addressed. thank you.