Just sharing an idea ...

[JekylandHyde]

... pardon me for thinking out loud, but I was just reading one of the other threads about the growing number of entries and how to deal with 100+ cars, etc, and I had a thought.

One phrase I have seen thrown around a lot is "register early."
Combine that with the fact that we fill out the same (or is it just similar) form for each event ... and my thought is, why not have a registration for the year?

Maybe this could stream line things overall. Again, I am obviously not part of the behind the scenes logistics of things ~ just sharing a thought out loud.

Imagine doing a pre-registration for the year for the events you plan on doing. This would affectively hold your place in line. Maybe just pay $50/event up front. If you do not complete your registration when the event comes, you lose the $50; otherwise, it is credited toward your total entry fee.

Benefits:
1. Organizers would have an advance idea of number of competitors.
2. Paperwork could be filled out once.
3. The veterans that run many of the races do not risk losing their place in line for new members/novices.

Speaking as someone who is only in their second year of hill climbing and feeling like a "newbie", I think the people who have been doing this longer than I have should have dibs on getting into an event before I do. Consquently, I wouldn't want to get locked out of an event that was capped at 100 while a bunch of novices got in before me.

A larger impact of this would be the people competing for championships. It would suck if there was a good year-long race going on and someone was not able to keep competing because an event was capped and the missed out.

Again, just a thought. Feel free to deconstruct the idea until I no longer recognize it

[Matt Green]

Oh come on Jeff, would we do that?

I personally think it's a cool idea. I'm just not sure how to administrate it, and I'm not sure how many would use it...

To ask a few leading questions-

What would be the cutoff for turning in the balance of the fee? I just ask because what if a car-whore like me wanted to enter because I managed to find a ride. One week before? Two? At registration?

Don't you think this would do even more to discourage new entrants/novices? I have no desire to limit the number of "newbies", but I do want a high quality event for all those who do pay to be there. There are still quite a few old-timers that show up and pay at registration (myself included- but I'm not so much an old-timer). Shouldn't it be the procrastinators who are penalized, versus those who just found out about the sport?

Again, just a few points to ponder, but you do have an interesting idea there...

[JekylandHyde]

hmmm ... maybe I wasn't completely clear. I did not mean to imply that this was the "only" way to register so people could still register like it is currently done. So people like you that last-minute whore a ride or someone who just found out about the sport could still register as it has always been done.

I guess I just think way far ahead. I had my race schedule planned months ago so I was already aware of what races I was planning on doing.

I just think it would be easy for those that are planning on doing multiple events to cut down paperwork and the number of people that need to register.

[Matt Green]

I got that part Jeff. What I was wondering was this-

Let's say that 40 people take advantage of your new method. Let's also say another 60 preregister for an event and we're now at 100. Then, only 20 out of 40 pay the rest of the fee. We now have 20 spots with a "reservation" but no true entry. What if one of those was you, and you popped your trans at the previous event. You, being the uncaring and callous individual you are (yeah right) don't bother to tell anyone you're coming or not coming. When do we "release" your spot? One week before the event? When registration opens? when it closes? When can I, the car whore, steal your spot from under you? Are you sitting this weekend out? Still fixing the car? What if it gets fixed Friday night and you pull up Saturday to find out I'm there in your stead?

Know what I mean?

These are just administrative things that need to be made very clear before any system gets put in place...

[JekylandHyde]

Gotcha.

I would say you lose your spot when the "regular" pre-registration ends.

[brandonl]

How about a standing room approach. If an event has a maximum entry number of 100 for example. 120 entries make it in before the entry closing date. Those 20 people are put on stand by for the no-shows, so you are guarenteed a full field.

Another idea could be seperating the multi day events. Example: Saturday's runs $80, Sunday's runs are $80, both days are $150. If the event can handle 100 cars on a given day, what does it matter if they are the same 100 entrants on both days? Some budget and time restricted competitiors may also like this approach. This idea is based on 2 clubrallys being the same event as 1 prorally.

Brandon

[wildhorsesracing]

We do something like that each year, we effectively let someone pay for the whole year's events and get a 25% discount if they pay by 31 Jan. We have on average 10-15 drivers do that, if they miss an event they aren't so worried as they got 2.5 out of 10 weekends for free.

But I agree, you upset more people if you hold a spot and nobody shows up. All of our events are available for registration at the beginning of the year, so anyone that wants to register early can do so.

It saves lots of confusion!! - check out:
http://www.SnowShoeHillclimb.com or
http://www.RockCreekHillclimb.com or
http://www.NASA-Southeast.com/schedule.shtml

[Tim Royer]

HI all,

I for one love new ideas I have some myself from time to time. The Pre-season registration idea is good and bad. One thing would be there is no incentive to do so and if you give a discount of say 25% or whatever, it would be hard to get all organizations involved to agree. Believe me. The other thing would be it would cause me and other organizers a bit more paper work. We would need to add a list of drivers that have not completely paid and as per supplements of every event you are not registered until the entry is paid in full.

There has been an increase in attendance at every event so far this year, but I don't foresee that we will be getting over 100 or even 90 drivers at each event this year or the next. Most likely at Giants next year the flood gates will open up and we will have 100 plus drivers (not including Mike Ancas driving 5 cars trying to take every class record) Because of Giants being such a big event next year pre-registration will be very very early and late fees will be high. (Just a heads up) It will be a celebration like no other. But what I don't want to see is any driver get lost in the mix and having a bad time. I’m starting to work on 2006 Giants now because there is a ton of things to do and get done. I’ll be asking for all your opinions on how it should be and what you think it should be.

Later! See ya at Rose Valley!!!!!

[Mel Horn]

Here's an idea.

I have long wondered why we can't use the same registration form for all events. For that matter, the Driver Information form generally has the same information also, from event to event and year to year.

Pre-register, using the form, ahead of time for any and all events. Your entry is accepted if/when you send in your entry fee for a specific event.

At registration you show up, your form is printed out, you sign and go through tech.

I know, the next sound you hear is the can of worms opening up...

[wildhorsesracing]

Actually the NASA online registration system does all that already, once you have registered for an event you can check the 'one-click' registration option and whenever you log back in you can register for any and all events you want to and it stores your car, emergency contacts, etc for you

http://www.NASAProRacing.com

[Champ]

EMRA has a simple on-line registration system and yourautoevents.com offers one used by many of the local regions for Solo II. It'd be great if we could use something like that.

[Matt Rowe]

There are currently a couple of different online registration systems under constant development. That is actually the type of thing I was referring to when I said a few weeks ago that Rose Valley might have an online registration option again next year. And my ulterior motive for that is to use it a test bed to see if all of the hills would like to make use of it. WDC region and many others are using a very nice system that incorporates many of the features that we would like. Permanent numbers, retain car/driver info and so on. The fee structure doesn't seem outlandish but one sticking point I am looking into is how the funds are handled. For a look at the system check out dlbracing. The immediate concern I have, beyond the $50 fee per event, is the site references paypal which does have some issues regarding fund transfers and guarantees of payment. I'm going to have to talk to some regions and see how they have set up payment methods. I can't imagine WDCR is using Paypal for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of an entries a year. In the end the issue will probably come down to how much additional cost goes into the budget for a hillclimb to cover online entry. I know I already spend hours doing my own mailings to save a hundred or so in printing costs. I'm a lot less likely to give up that savings on an online entry form.

On another topic, annual waiver forms, there is a provision in place by National to allow for it in club racing, but the documentation and administration is not something simple. I'll bring it up with some of the other registration people but essentially it might be more trouble than it's worth. To use it a system needs to be in place to track membership renewal dates and status and verify each entrant isn't past their membership experation at each event. Also, annual waiver ID cards need to be made and attached to licenses complete with photos. Again, a lot of administration.

As far as car counts go, this year has been great so far but the people who have been around even as little as 3-4 years can tell you that we used to worry about having enough cars to hold events. Now we are worried about too many. The hills seem to have been cyclic in nature as far as attendance goes so before we start worrying too much I'm waiting to see if the growth in numbers continues. In the meantime register early and register often, right Mike Ancas?

One last general comment about the variety of suggestions. Although I don't think the methods we have now are perfect, they are working pretty well and radical changes do make unitended consequences a greater risk. Also, while PHA is the broad organization body it is up to each event to determine what is best for their own operation. Currently that means essentially 3 people deciding details for indiviual events. What works well for Tim or Rick is not always what works well for me and so on. So trying to standardize everything can be very problematic. Not that the suggestions aren't welcome or there isn't room for change but the issues are rarely as simple as we would like.

[LARRY LONG]

At one time entries could exceed 200 cars at a hillclimb. Half the classes ran on Saturday and the second half on Sunday.

More cars = less runs.

See everyone at Rose Valley.

Larry Long

[svann]

Ok since we are brain storming, here is the way they did it at the Chimney Rock Hillclimb, years ago, when they had large fields and a 150 car limit. They had qualifying runs on Friday and Saturday for half the field each day. From those the 80 fastest ran for trophies on Sunday. This added a little excitement and incentive to the first day. This would be a way to allow for the growth of the sport, if we started to hit 100 entries on a regular basis. I'm just throwing this out to show what has been done before with bigger entries. We all want the most runs we can get and yet want to see the sport grow.

[Mel Horn]

At one time entries could exceed 200 cars at a hillclimb. Half the classes ran on Saturday and the second half on Sunday.

More cars = less runs.See everyone at Rose Valley.

Larry Long

Showing our age, aren't we, Larry?

Yes, remember it ...somewhat!

At Giant's one year I ran on Saturday and put out Don Smith's McLaren fire at the finish line on Sunday...

The norm seemed to be 3 runs. If you broke, too bad. Also, at Duryea we used the back road and street (!) as return. No turnaround/break to send cars back down.

We also started earlier, like April...