PA Hillclimb

www.citizensvoice.com (be sure to click on sports photos in the sports section)
www.timesleader.com (do a search for Giants Despair from the sports section)

Just looked over the results. WOW, there was almost a grand upset. How close did Bob Damore come to the FTD? The Famed 1968 McKee almost upset the Legandary Gurney Eagle. It did manage to beat the awsome EX-Indycar (or is that a CART/CHAMP car?).

WAY TO GO BOB! See that, old guys in old cars are not to be ignored!

Dave Y

My appologies Bob. I hope you aren't offended by my "Old Guys" comment. Maybe just your car is old?

Dave Y

Dave,

No offense taken. I'm ancient and thank god my kids were there to wheel me around and lift me into and out of the car. A couple of times they had to turn me around and get me pointed back up the hill, but other than that I did okay on my own.

I propose a new formula for determining FTD. Add the car's age to the driver's age, subtract that total from the actual time and lowest 'net' time wins. Darryl agrees with me that this is the only fair way to determine FTD. I think Jack would also back me up on this.

So at Giant's if you subtract my 43+75 from my 43.275 time you get a minus 74.725.

Darryl's 42.187 time minus 43+38 = minus 38.813.

I win by minus 35.912 seconds.

See you at Polish Mountain.

Brgds,

Bob D

Not a bad idea. Maybe apply to all the classes. So I get 36 for my 1975 Scirocco and 62 gives me 98 seconds off. Maybe I can catch Darryl afterall? Jack Sr would finally get revenge on Darryl as well.

I bet this will open a whole new can of worms. Like Bob Oz Sr in a 60 something Beetle, Tom Knorr in his old Sprite and so on. Does that put Morgan in the mix?

Dave Y

Dave,

Morg's car is too new. It was built in the '90's. Morg aint new at all, and he's fast enough to make up for quite a few car years. So is Oz. How about Ted Klaus? Oscar Kovelesky would come out of retirement. Carroll Sheby could break a minute again in one of his original Cobras without even showing up.

Your minus 98 puts you in good shape, but would you consider racing a Model A Ford? Minus 142 would make you hill climbing's capo du tutti capi.

Bob

I read the Friday paper where Darryl called me chicken for not wanting to run on the new pavement. I wanted tell everyone the reason why I did not enter. I felt it would not be good for the community if Darryl was beaten at "his " hill three years in a row, and since I plan to run the 2012 event, I decided to bow out. I did talk to Bob Damore about my feelings and he understood. In fact he understood so well that he elected not to replace his four year old tires before the event so as to give Darryl a fighting chance. As the times show, the old tires were just right for the job. Since 2012 is the 25th anniversary of the revival of the hillclimb, and I won that event in 1987 (when Darryl was about 18), I felt it necessary to be there.
George

Bob just a correction my car goes back to the late 70's or early 80's according to Jerry. I may be in the mix!

Morg,

You'd be 'in it' driving a 2012 Smart Car.

Is the Bandit OK for Polish Mtn?

Bob

georgebowland wrote:I read the Friday paper where Darryl called me chicken for not wanting to run on the new pavement. I wanted tell everyone the reason why I did not enter. I felt it would not be good for the community if Darryl was beaten at "his " hill three years in a row, and since I plan to run the 2012 event, I decided to bow out. I did talk to Bob Damore about my feelings and he understood. In fact he understood so well that he elected not to replace his four year old tires before the event so as to give Darryl a fighting chance. As the times show, the old tires were just right for the job. Since 2012 is the 25th anniversary of the revival of the hillclimb, and I won that event in 1987 (when Darryl was about 18), I felt it necessary to be there.
George

Just showing up doesn't give you FTD automatically! There is always unforseen mechanical issues.

Mike,

You are quite right. George has gone all over north America looking for new hill climbs and autocrosses to enter, as well as visisting all the usual ones. In the last 3 or 4 years out of several dozen events he has not won twice due to mechanical issues.

Don't get too wrapped up in this this pre-fight hype. It's all tongue in cheek and for our entertainment. Both George and Darryl know they are in for a tough dog fight whenever they meet -- and thus the head games.

Brgds,

Bob D

Just to clear things up a bit, Don't always believe what you read in the papers!!!! That's not what was said. The paper wanted to make something there wasn't. I do consider this my hill only for the reason that for all the blood, sweat and effort put into making it the best it can be for EVERYONE, spectators and drivers alike. Also my tires are 5 years old and nobody shows up to come in second. To George I am sorry that our news paper feels the need to fabricate things. I hope there are no hard feelings!
THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT HELPED WITH THE EVENT!!!!!!
Darryl

Darryl,

I for one drove my butt off trying to catch you. Thanks for all your help -- without it I'd have never come close.

I had more fun at this event than anyone can imagine. As I told your dad, this is my favorite event.

Best,

Bob D

P.S.: I had tried to get new tires.

My entire post was meant as a joke, but I guess my sense of humor escaped some. I took Darryl's quote in the Friday paper as a tongue in cheek remark, and thought it was pretty funny. I hillclimb for the fun of it, and would not be here if I took it too seriously. My real reason for missing Giants was because of three different family member's visits to our home the week before and the weekend of Giants. I have lost many races in my 32 seasons of Autocross and 29 seasons of hillclimbing, and I never attend an event assuming I will win FTD. It takes a little luck, good weather, a car that does not break, and some decent driving to win one. Luckily I have a very well designed car, thanks to my son, so well designed that even someone approaching 70 can drive it pretty fast.

I also like Giants, but never considered having a chance to get FTD there, since my car is really built for twistier hills with shorter straights. Last year's win was a gift, and I really enjoyed it. I will not go back next year thinking I can win FTD, but will try to do my personal best as a consolation prize.
George

I thought all the posts were pretty funny. If you want your cars to go faster, just put one of SM guys in it OR Mark Aubele. The door slammers are catching up in a hurry so you guys better get your butts in gear. All it will take is a 150 shot of nitrous and you guys are in trouble....maybe a 175. I'm good with either.

Hmm, I am re-reading my post. DON'T put Mark in your cars cause he'll break the records so deep that nobody will ever be close again.

Daryl, excellent event. We had a great time. The road surface was perfect. Looked like spectator areas were in great shape and there were spectators on the hill way after the event was over on Sunday. So they obviously enjoyed it too.

Steve,

Don't think we open wheel fogies aren't keeping an eye on you door slamming tigers. We often speculate about who might do what with which car. One of my favorites to contemplate is that Blazer driver from NH. I am awed by the talent that shows up at our events.

And do not underestimate the driving talent of last week's winner. Anybody who can run a 52 at Pagoda in such a large car as the Lola has to be magic or nuts. He also wins in the Eagle, the Jedi and in F500's as well as Atlantics.

George B. wins all the autocrosses as well as most of the hill climbs -- and does it within his first or second run. Surely there has to be some driving talent involved. Remember speed comes from a combination of skill and ability to analyze a course correctly. George is the best I have ever seen in the latter category.

Stan Vann turns a legal Formula Ford into the equivalent of a formula B. How about Brian Halecki at Giant's?

Matt Rowe: Can't we let the door slammers run nitrous?

Brgds,

Bob D

Bob, you said it so tactfully. I would have been a lot more rude about comments regarding comparisons of drivers of unlimited horse power cars challenging strict rule based race cars. Like supercharges, turbochargers and all wheel drive isn't enough, now they want nitrous. (you know I'm just having fun with this too? )

Dave Y

In actuality, SCCA had to regulate all the 2 and 4 cylinder or 1.3L Rotary engine "Real" race cars so that they don't embarrass the "door slammers" so bad. It's about time they start catching up. What took them so long? Once they learn to improve their aerodynamics and lower their center of gravity, THAT may make them unbeatable. But then they wouldn't be street cars any longer. They would be "Real Race Cars".

One other thing to keep in mind. The rate at which a race car can improve it's performance (lap or run time) goes up exponentially in horse power required to overcome gravity, aerodynamic drag and inertia (change in direction or cornering). It's one thing to say "I'm only 4 seconds off the FTD" and reality. It's like saying "what's the difference between a 6 and 10 second 1/4 mile run? It's only 4 seconds, right?"

Anyway, I'm a door slammer too so don't think I'm trying to put anyone down. I am very impressed with the acheivemnents of the Street Mod Class. They are a great bunch of skilled drivers and race car builders. Just don't get too big a head! We are still all Big Fish in a Small pond.

Dave Y

Steve,
Like you, I am very impressed with the Street Mod cars, and especially Dan Reed this year. That said, please let me give you a reference point when you are looking for six to eight seconds to get to FTD. It took me 23 years and three stages of home built cars to improve from my hill record run at weatherly in 1987 of 54.237 to my 2010 record of 47.715. Now that required much better tires, a car with twice the horsepower, and a car with 30% less weight. Not to mention a better road surface and 23 more years of hillclimb experience.

While the Street Mod cars are improving, I have to tell you that you absolutely won't believe what that next seven seconds looks like from the driver's perspective on the hill.
George

dspgti wrote:Bob, you said it so tactfully. I would have been a lot more rude about comments regarding comparisons of drivers of unlimited horse power cars challenging strict rule based race cars. Like supercharges, turbochargers and all wheel drive isn't enough, now they want nitrous. (you know I'm just having fun with this too? )

Dave Y

Dan Reed's car weighs about 3200 lbs. and has 430 rear wheel horsepower. Steve's car weighs 3700 and has a bit more. Jer's Evo has ~400 and is was probably 3200 in SM trim. My notch back in '07 had a stock junkyard longblock with a Vortech and made well under 400 at the wheels. Although I do plan on making your "unlimited horsepower" claim come to fruition at some point in the near future.