PA Hillclimb

Matt,

Please correct me if I'm wrong. TT still does not have a protest procedure in the rules?

Dave Y.

Correct, there is no formal protest procedure defined in the rules. The relevant section is based on the description of the event officials.

8.9. TIME TRIALS CHIEF STEWARD
The TT Chief Steward is the executive responsible for the general conduct of the event in accordance with the TTR and the Supplementary Regulations. In the event of a protest, the Chief Steward shall appoint three individuals to hear, discuss, and rule on the protest. These individuals shall have no material interest in the involved parties or in the outcome of the protest.

So it is up to the Chief Steward (or SOM if used) to designate a panel of 3 individuals with no interest in the outcome.

Are you implying we need to define a protest process? Considering the number of protests that have occurred we had tried not to over-legislate the process, but if you feel different you can submit a request or suggestion to the TTAC.

I am thinking like Matt about making it easier for new drivers.
I like the idea of a flow diagram too.
The Time Trial rules is making it confusing for IT and Production cars because of the following statement:

The exact text from section 11 of the TTR is:

If the vehicle does not fall into a Club Racing class, the cage should be prepared to the GCR equivalent or greater (for example, a tube-frame Special car should be compared to a GT class cage, while a street-driven car that ends up in Special because of odd modifications could be comparable to a Production or IT cage).

This is what I think needs to be fixed. It has gotten me a few times! Think I would learn, but I screw it up over and over because of that paragraph.
The reference to the Production or IT cage makes me think it needs to meet the GCR IT rules.
I think the intent is to make it a bit easier for someone moving from solo into hillclimbing, but the language confuses it?
This is what I think is should say to remove the confusion, please correct me if I am wrong:

If the vehicle does not fall into a Club Racing class, the cage should be prepared to the GCR equivalent or greater (for example, a tube-frame Special car should be compared to a GT class cage, while a street-driven car that ends up in Special because of odd modifications should meet all roll protection rules for a street class car).

What do you think?

I agree about that being a confusing statement. Altho, i'm not sure that is what's confusing IT or production drivers. Its a statement for cars that dont fall into IT or production.

I'm not sure if maybe my eyes skipped over it or not, but why not a classification system similar to the New England Hillclimb Association? It seems straight forward enough and we could always add on to it (Vintage, Special, INEX, whatever). It seems simple enough to implement. I'm no expert on classing and the a lot of the subtle differences, but it seems it would wipe out some of this confusion/concern over classing and maybe condense some of the smaller classes. Just a thought.

Here's the link:

http://hillclimb.org/rules_regs/hillcli ... 1class.pdf

Im all for that idea!!!!!!! But, there are ALOT of other people that i'd bet would have a different opinion.

We all knew about these rules and do not consider them to be a simplification.
Don

Go back to the basic premis. We MUST provide for all the GCR classes. As I see it, I prepare my car to a GCR spec. You can bump me up but you can't put me in a catch all non GCR class. Maybe I'm wrong, but anything else won't work (for GCR cars). What you do with SOLO cars is another thing. The SP/SM allowances are only "strongly recommened".

Dave Y

Mazdahead wrote: This is what I think is should say to remove the confusion, please correct me if I am wrong:

If the vehicle does not fall into a Club Racing class, the cage should be prepared to the GCR equivalent or greater (for example, a tube-frame Special car should be compared to a GT class cage, while a street-driven car that ends up in Special because of odd modifications should meet all roll protection rules for a street class car).

What do you think?

Dale,

You are suggesting that a street-driven Special should not be required to have a cage, just a roll bar?

Rich Rock

I think the wording is clear enough as it is. I'm confused at what the confusion is over?

I also think it would be very clear if the rules said, All GCR cars must meet all GCR rules including safety requirements, including rollcages".

That should be simple enough.

Dave Y

dspgti wrote:Go back to the basic premis. We MUST provide for all the GCR classes. As I see it, I prepare my car to a GCR spec. You can bump me up but you can't put me in a catch all non GCR class. Maybe I'm wrong, but anything else won't work (for GCR cars). What you do with SOLO cars is another thing. The SP/SM allowances are only "strongly recommened".

Dave Y

Heyyyyyyyyyy. Can I get bumped into your class?

NO! I get bumped into your class

DY

I don't see a published bumping order.
Don

I'll make you faster Dave. A hitch welded on to the back of the Mach and I can pull ya up the hill if you want. Is there some rule against that somewhere? Technically, it'll be 1 car. And it can run in special if you don't mind. New class: Special II

Steve you pull Dave and I will push and it will make 3 car 1 and i think maybe speical 3 then

Both of you would slow me down