PA Hillclimb

Recently moved back to the area and I have always been interested in hill climbing. So now I want to build my car to do it. Been doing a little research and down loaded the Time Trials Rules, but I didn't find much info for how the vehicles fit in what class. The car is going to be primarily a street car with track on weekends.

The car is a 1968 Plymouth Barracuda fastback. Engine is going to be a Mopar 383 big block should put out 500hp at the crank. Engine is also going to be fuel injected, using MS-II. Front suspension is getting tubular upper control arms, keeping torsion bars but going with stiffer ones, nylon bushings, and a good set of shocks. front and rear sway bars. Rear keeping solid axle for now, thinking of going with independent, but that isn't going to be bolt in and a lot of money and fabrication. To stiffen up the unibody its getting frame connectors and torque boxes. Car now weights less than 3000lbs, it will be getting a couple fiberglass components to help lighten it up. Battery relocated to trunk to help with weight distribution.

I have a couple of questions.

Where is the rules that I can determine what class my car will fit into?

The engine isn't completely built yet, so I can move around where it will be making power. Do I want low end torque or top end power?

Do I have a good plan so far?

Thanks for any help and input. I plan on going to some of the races to see and learn as much as I can.

Can this be anything other than a GT-1 car?

So far sounds like Street Mod. Depending upon what has been done in the interior and rest of the chassis.

Low end torque to get out of corners. 500 crank puts you at around 425rwhp or there abouts. Where do you live? If you need a tuner, I have a guy that can help.

Start here: http://www.scca.com/documents/2011%20Te ... 0Rules.pdf
May as well just scroll on down to 16 and read from there. Most important rule: If it doesn't say you 'can'....you CAN"T. After you understand that, go for it.

Street Mod is pretty open. You can do all kinds of crap and spend gobbs and gobbs of money.

We can debate the issue of an IRS all day long. Since I don't remember much of the make up of the 68 cuda, I would attempt to make that SRA work first.

You only need a roll bar to hillclimb. Make sure your harness is installed correctly. Y belts are ILLEGAL so don't even ask. Here are some guidelines: http://simpsonraceproducts.com/safety-r ... positions/

There are a lot of street car guys here. We can help guide you. Maybe not help you car specific but we'll get you on the right track. It'll be cool as hell to see a 68 cuda hillclimbing! Hurry up and get that car done and get to Summit at the end of May. Perfect track for test and tune. Lots of 'mistake' areas, hehe.

Wow, that is a lot of stuff to consider.
No there is no listing of a 1968 Barracuda in GT1.
If going by present rules you should look at SPO (Super Production Over 2.5 litre) besides the Street Mod class. The suspension mods might take you out of Street Mod.
You might consider a Vintage /Historic Class. If you build it to Trans Am or IMSA pre 1972 specs, you could make it a very valuable car.

Just another opinion,
Dave Y

Thanks for the input. Where do you go to see what class the car could possibly fit into?

I probably won't be going to fuel injection for a while.

Read the solo rules for where you'd fall into there. I say Street Mod with confidence.

For Historic or Vintage, you'll have to have some input from folks that are in those classes.

Not sure where you get SPO rules. Someone should be able to chime in here...........

JGC403 wrote:Thanks for the input. Where do you go to see what class the car could possibly fit into?

I'd rather try to explain Einsteins Theroy Of Relativity. Another words, "it's not that simple". Not becuase the Time Trial Rules or PHA classes are not easy to find, It's that we allow so many different dividions of SCCA to run with us. Since we are a part of SCCA Club Racing, we start by accepting all GCR classed cars. To find those, you would go to the SCCA web, find the Club Racing section,look for cars and rules, that will take you to a page that you can view the GRC (or the Time Trials rules) and look over the classes and rules. You will not find the Barracuda listed anywhere. That means you have to dig deeper and consider something like SPO which you will find only breif information. That is because you can run most anything if you follow the saftey rules. This is a catch 22 for former ground pounders, IMSA GTO, NASCAR, Trans Am and the like. Be carefull here, Time trials is lax on cage requirements and this class should require one.

Back to the GCR selection page. There you can get the Time Trial rules and accptable classes. It will basically tell you which SOLO classes are allowed to run. Now you can go to the SOLO Rule book. We are finaly getting somewhere. You will find the Barracuda under ESP which is E Street Prepared. Read all the rules that say what you are allowed to modify from stock. You would run with some pretty fast company. One being an EVIL MUSTANG. If the rules are too limiting for you, as Steve said you could jump to Street Mod and really hop it up. Just be carefull of suspension changes. Not all are allowed. Read the rules throughly and understand them. Do not try to interpet anything. Unless the book says you CAN do it..YOU CAN'T. This is a roll bar only required class if you are crazy enough to run without a full cage.

Last but not least is Historic and Vintage Catagory. Yup, there is a different rule book for that one two. I don't think you can download that one. You would have to buy it. A few of us have one if you'd like to look at it before deciding. I may be wrong but I think the only class for the Barracuda is under Trans Am Rules. You would build it to Trans Am (that was and still is an SCCA organization) Rules up to 1972. Pretty damn cool if you ask me but that would limit the use of the car to racing only.

Oh, one last class selection. Still feel you are too limited to what you can modify, there is Specials. These are cars that you can do anything you want within saftey rules. This is a cage only class.

I hope this sheds a little light on your questions but I'm sure you have a lot more. Don't hesitate to ask. We are here to help you sort threw it.

Dave Yeager

Last I knew there was a displacement limit in street mod. Maybe that has changed in the years since I ran in the class. But if I remember correctly it was around 370ci.

Didn't Trans Am also have a limit on engine size? And, for the record, PHA has drawn the line at 3 litres for SPO and SPU. That rule will be in the 2011 supps.

Rich Rock

JGC403 ,
Your question as to where or what class does my car fit in as you can see is a tough one according to these posts. So far according to the above posts it could be one of the following: GT-1, SPO, STREET-MOD, ESP, VINTAGE, HISTORIC or SPECIALS. I know that all of these fine Gentleman are trying to help you decide but even to a veteran racer it all seems quite confusing to me as I'm sure it does to you. My suggestion would be if you don't care what class you run in, build the car the way you want, bring it to the first event and let the head person in charge tell you where you should run. The PHA has a class for every type car. As pointed out there are some special safety requirements for many classes. I run in Special 2 and the reason is as long as you meet the safety requirements, and the engine displacement, anything goes. I need not worry about tire size, Seats or no seats, Windshield, Suspension type, wings or no wings, Stock parts or aftermarket add on's, Engine Mods, Type of Transmission, Limited Slip Diff. etc. etc. etc. Don't let the confusion of which class to run deter you from participating. Good Luck with your car and I hope to see you on the Hills.

Rich Rock wrote:Didn't Trans Am also have a limit on engine size? And, for the record, PHA has drawn the line at 3 litres for SPO and SPU. That rule will be in the 2011 supps.

Rich Rock

Man do we ever confuse the SH-T out of people trying to run in our events.

Didn't I say Trans Am 1972 and older specs? There is a whole lot more to consider than just cid.

Where was a limit on 3 litres on SPO introduced???? NEDIV (That's the division of SCCA we run under) makes a break of 2000cc and under for SPU and over 2000cc for SPO. MARRS/WDC Region makes a break at 2500cc between SPO and SPU. Never heard of any top limit? A 383 cid or whatever he was talking about is WAAAAY over SPU or 2, 2.5 or even 3 litre. That still makes it SPO, RIGHT?

You mean to tell me PHA has voted set a limit contrary to SCCA acceptable classes? I guess I wasn't at that meeting?

Street MOD engine size limit??? Where did that come from. There are a lot of 7 liter and over running in that class.

Morg, you have the right attitude but to tell someone just to build it and come out may be a problem. He may overstep some boundries of modification that puts him in a ROLL CAGE only class and show up with a roll bar and be turned away.

Come on guys, lets get our stuff together. "THE FACTS SIR, ONLY THE FACTS" (Drag Net, are you old enough to remember?)

dave y

Wouldn't a Cuda be just too cute in H1? Jack better fix up that old Mustang. He needs to have a kickass 8 track in there & rat fink decals. Sue

RAT FINK Wow did I just have a flash back. Go ahead and google "rat fink". Big Daddy Ed Roth is making more money today than he ever did in the last 50 years. You can even play the song RATT FINK rat fink.

Thanks Sue

It took me a little bit but I found one they would let me post

Dave you are right. I assumed with a car such as his with the hp. possibilities, he would wisely select to go with a full cage. I stand corrected!

Sounds like he wants to remain in a streetable version of his car.
I think this defines that he should check out the Solo rules for what classes are available for his model/make.
Whether or not he installs a full cage or not is totally up to him in a street class, of course we always reccomend the full cage because hills are dangerous and we don't want anyone to hurt themselves. And, don't think it won't happen to you!
I am really glad to see all the guys chipping in here to help without just saying, "read the rules"!
I know when I began this process it was just as difficult.
The forum is a good place to start, but come visit us at a hill and find one of the Tech inspectors to chat with.
I know I usually have the rules at the track and can let you look or I can assist you in reviewing them.
Sorry, it is just not cut and dry because of all the after-market products available and all of the modifications a builder can think of too!
I suggest looking at your classes in the solo rules, pick the one that makes the most sense for your budget, and leave yourself room to move up into higher performance classes as you improve your ride, which I guarantee will happen.
More than likely you will find that you will not be all that competitive your first few times out until you learn what it takes to run a hill, both mechanically and mentally? I am sure you will improve as you go as most of us have done.
Come look me up at the hills and we can talk more or keep asking here until the season begins.

Okay, here are some facts

The cutoff for the PHA vinatge class is 1962, so the 'cuda can't run Vintage.

1972 is cutoff for Historic, so it qualifies for H-2 based on age and engine size. But the rules for Historic are based on the 1972 SCCA rules, which do not permit replacement of metal body panels with fiberglass ones. PHA rules say flares may be fiberglass. So if the 'cuda has fiberglass body panels, it's not legal for Historic. Historic rules limit his wheel size to stock diameter, but width may be increased by no more than 1-1/2"

1968 Trans Am rules limit engine size to 305 ci. (5 litre) 383 would not be correct if he were trying to build a Trans Am clone.

I would LOVE to see this car at the hills!!

Rich Rock

Thanks for all of the replys. Looks like I have some reading to do. I plan on going to the races just to see how everything works and to talk to people, to learn as much as I can. I would rather not put a roll cage in the car, I know its safer; but the car is still going to be primary a street car, with a full interior. I am not planning on being that competitive, just want to go out and have fun. But I am sure once I start racing, the not caring about being competitive mentality will probably change.

The Barracuda won't be done for at least a year. Depending on cash flow.

Need to correct my previous staement on wheel size. 8" max width, 14 or 15" diameter for the cuda according to the 1972 Rulebook

Rich Rock

JGC403,
If you have questions about SCCA membership and the Time Trial licensing procedure please send me an email at: jjpfoto@earthlink.net. Enter TTNovice in the subject line.
And, if your car will not be ready for competition this year, please come to the events and help us out. We are always looking for volunteers. And, there is no better way to figure out what is going on than immersing yourself in it, and quite frankly it is fun.
Looking forward to meeting you,
John