noise control

[mckee]

I had the opportunity to chock wheels for John at the Weatherly start line. I could not believe how painfully loud our two-cycle cars (Mazda rotaries, Saabs, etc.) are until they pulled into the starter's box. There was no escaping the noise, as I was tethered to the chock line. It's well above the pain threshhold and surely is doing irrepairable damage to our ears.

An OSHA inspector, had one been present would have shut the event down. One does not need a sound meter to recognize noise exceeding the 110 DB limit OSHA considers unacceptable for exposures of 15 minutes or less. If it hurts, it's over the limit. Thanks to the high frequency element of the two-stroke, OSHA tables show that even 95 DB at 300 cycles per second (6000 rpm in a 3 cylinder) is the equivalent of 110 DB at lower frequencies. Thus to be OSHA legal our two-strokes should be no louder than 95 DB at 300 cps. Theoretically any spectator can sue PHA for willful negligence because we knowingly expose them to this excessive level of noise.

I asked John if the noise from the two strokes bothered him. He had the same reaction I did. He, like I does not wear ear plugs because it just is not safe to be wandering in and among moving race cars without being able to hear as much as possible. My hearing is already shot thanks to listening to too much incoming and outgoing, courtesy US Army -- and I'd like very much to retain what little hearing I have left. While artillery was a necessary evil there is no viable reason for a racer to make as much high frequency noise as possible with an unmuffled two-cycle engine. I overheard a driver of one of the loudest discussing the situation with the poor bastard who had to pit near him: PB - "Isn't there some sort of resonating device you could use that would not reduce your power? Loud guy - "I don't know and I don't care. Even if there was I would not use it."

I'm confident that there are two-cycle muffling devices that would not handicap power as even the fastest motorcycles utilize mufflers to create just the right amount of back pressure to drive the escaping fuel/air charge back into the cylinder on the power stroke. George Bowland is the fastest of the fast -- he runs three mufflers!

NEHA mandates all Mazda rotaries be suitably muffled, even at unmuffled events. This is to protect the racers and spectators from physical damage to their ears. There is no DB limit set, but the tech inspector must be subjectively satisfied that the car is not too loud. No racer has complained about this rule and the many RX-7s that race there are a joy to watch and hear. BTW one of the local residents carries a sound meter with him to the Burke Mountain hill climb.

For those who are concerned with the extra adminsitrative burden of sound testing the louder cars, we have two options:
1. Leave it to the subjective judgement of the tech inspector and or safety steward as to what is too loud.
2. I will purchase a sound meter and test each louder car car as it leaves the start. I would recommend 95 DB for the two-strokes.

As I have said before, I will happily install my 95 DB mufflers on the McKee if that is what it takes to encourage a more considerate, cooperative attitude within our ranks.

Bob D'Amore

[Rich Rock]

Gee, the season's over less than a week and........ here we go

At Duryea this year, there was one car that was especially loud leaving the start line on Saturday. The stewards were going to talk to the guy about it, but the car broke and could not run on Sunday. So, nothing official had to be done. In this case, safety concerns were the big issue. It was about impossible to hear the radios as the car left the line and headed to Turn 1.

Rich Rock

[FV95]

Two thoughts to add: 1. I believe the sound control at Summit Point will report cars generating more than 93 decibels, and mandate noise reduction action be taken. 2. There was a Formula Mazda running with us at Jefferson. It went very fast and was not particularly loud.

[jzabriski21]

I need to speak up and say something. It is up to the event organizers to put a db limit on exhaust noise i.e. Summit Point.
If there is no db limit set that means open exhaust is fine. This is also a budget way of not spending big $$ on an all stainless steel muffler needed for rx??
Most of the rx?? are there on a shoe string and if the rule is not there to mandate db I would not spend the extra$$, I would spend it on another entry,tires, New seatbelts,etc. again it is up to the organizers not us to decide what is too much noise. Also some cars may seam louder than they are just because of close quarters. The start line at weatherly is tight and narrow lots of trees and rocks for sound to get stuck in. How about Giants no body complaining of noise there,
Jefferson also wide open.
John Zabriski

[RX-Midget]

There was a Formula Mazda running with us at Jefferson. It went very fast and was not particularly loud.

FYI - the 13B Renisis motor (from a RX-8) used in this Formula car is very diferent from the older RX-2 thru RX-7 mtoors. It has totally different exhaust port design which make it sound different.

[mrevilracing]

5.7.3. Standards
A sound level instrument (meter) that meets American National Standards
Institute (ANSI) S1.40-2006 Class 2 or better shall be used.The
primary maximum for SCCA Sound Control shall be a sound pressure level
of 103dB “A” frequency weighted (dBa) measured on the fast response
setting at 50 feet (+/- 2 feet) from the edge of the track pavement, and/
or artificial markers indicating track edge. Lower maximum levels may be
imposed at specific venues or events. These lower levels shall be noted
in the Supplemental Regulations. All sound readings shall be truncated to
the lower whole number. (Anything after the decimal point is ignored.)
Proper location and use of all test instrumentation is essential to obtain
valid measurements. Operating manuals or other manufacturer’s literature
should be referenced for both recommended operation and precautions to
be observed.
1. Acoustic calibration procedures should include extension cable
influence.
2. Field calibration shall be done at least every four (4) hours while in
the operating mode.
3. The microphone shall be 3.5 feet (minimum) above the ground
surface, 2.0 feet (minimum) above the level of the roadway, no
more than 6 feet above the level of the roadway, and two hundred
(200) feet or more away from any tunnel or overpass through
which the target vehicle passes. Whenever possible it is recommended
(but not mandatory) that the microphone shall be located
on the outside of the track between the race car and the outside
perimeter of the racing facility, aimed into infield areas.
4. Weather conditions should be recorded every hour when conditions
are unstable, or otherwise every two (2) hours. Meteorological
instruments to support sound readings include a barometer
(capable of reading 0.1 inches of mercury recommended) and a
thermometer, accurate to +/- 1 degree Fahrenheit.

That's the rule right out of the GCR, page 36, online. All I can do when I read this is laugh. Who in the hell is gonna follow these guidelines? Cause if someone is going to sound meter ME, you had better follow this to the T or get the hell away from me.

Here's the point. The Mazda in question is the red one, right? Noisy, obnoxious and just plain loud in the stupid catagory. 99.9% of pit road will agree with that. As for me, I can't stand the sound. BUT, this is racing. NASCAR, ARCA, NHRA, F1, all have ridiculously loud cars. Top fuel funny cars are so loud, 1 would drown out the Mazdas if there were 100 of them revving next to one another.
The start line is a loud place and ear protection should be a must. Check out the following pictures and what is the common theme? Don't bother saying cars or fire suits, smart asses!





Ear protection. If those on the start line can't hear what is going on on the radio, then they need a headset that has a radio in it. Problem solved.

I do kind of agree with you Bob. Some cars should be muffled down to an acceptable level. But that's up to those folks to use their own common sense. Doesn't mean I have to like what a specific car sounds like, but If they don't muffle, I just look at it as it's just racing. It's loud and obnoxious and egotistical(which I like).

[dspgti]

You missed the most inportant part of the regulation, Steve. That is the sound level is dictated and mandatory at all SCCA Time Trials, Autocross and Club Racing events.

RX 7s of different colors have been in violation as well as a few other Four strokers.

Please read all previous postings on Sound Control before posting the same arguments that have been covered before.

Like Rich said, are we starting this already I'm ready for the fight again

Dave Y

[mrevilracing]

No, I didn't miss any important point. I know what the rule says and who mandates it and all that. But the season is over. So this is an arguement to take up at Spring Weatherly at the 8AM drivers meeting. Bring the specific sound meter as stated by the SCCA and all the equipment needed do the recalibrations as well as the meteorological instrumentation. When that is ALL collected, start metering on the 1st run. If all that can't be accounted for, buy a set of ear muffs and go racing.

[dspgti]

Well, in fact much of the ground work has been laid to do just that. The PHA was hoping to avoid the expense and as stated the Region holding the event is really responsible. The question is, who was going to force the hand to be played out. We were hoping self policing would suffice.I guess that question has been answered.

BMR is close to having a road coarse in thier area (Liberty Bell). We will be required to have all the necessary equipment and trained personel. We have studied the costs and are prepared to make the investment. In the mean time, the Jersey Racing Board has offered to loan equipment and personel to us to train and perform testing including Time Trials. They do the Tri Region events at Pocono and NJMP.

Dave Y

[FV195]

this all sounds like something I heard last year.
Roebling Road Race track makes it very clear at the drivers meetings. go over the sound limit 103 I think. and you GO HOME end of story.
The PHA could buy the sound control stuff, but who is going to man it??? we are short on workers as it is.
the sound level is in the supps. but we all know some cars are really too much.
I know my vee runs at 87db wide open. a lot of road courses publish these numbers.
but are we talking about true db levels? or the pitch of some cars?
THOR
p.s. having worked the start line with John a few times he does put on headphones for group 2, most of the time, takes them off between cars. but yes some of our cars do hurt my ears too

[Matt Rowe]

A couple thoughts on this subject:

The people who have no interest in sound control appear to have a very self centered view of the situation. I don't want to muffle my car. I think deafening noise is a necessary fact of racing. I think my idea of racing is more important than the comfort and safety of those people that organize, work and allow the event in these very public settings. This is paraphrasing, but it is how those arguments come across to many.

Don't fool yourself that these are isolated complaints. As an official I spend a lot of time at the start line facing the crowd which includes both drivers and spectators. Spend an afternoon looking and you would be surprised how many people you see wincing or covering their ears. Similarly I am reminded of the family I saw walking away from Weatherly this weekend. I only overheard part of the conversation as they passed by but they were carrying a rather unhappy looking kid whom they were taking home because the "cars are too loud." These are the people that the local races count on for two reasons. First, we need them to attend to make local sponsorship worthwhile. Second, we need them happy so that they don't ban us from their community. Now I was only standing at the exit for a few minutes and happened to overhear that. That's not to say there were many more, but is the future of the events worth the risk? As Dave Yeager is fond of saying, the events were here before us, we are their custodians and should insure they are still here after we are gone.

Also, before anyone quotes the rules you need to be sure you understand them. The GCR does not apply, this is Time Trials. The TTR references the sound control manual which does have a significant, detailed procedure for sound measurement. It has also long been agreed that those procedures do not easily lend themselves to hillclimb locations. They also don't address the issues present at hillclimbs. Keep in mind that hillclimbs are different than road courses. We are typically closer, especially for longer periods at idle speeds. It may very well be that we need to provide specific rules for hillclimbs. Club racing is concerned about the people a half mile away from the site, we have to be concerned about the people as close as 5 feet way from the vehicles at less than full throttle. A significantly different situation may require significantly different measurement rules.

Yes, decades ago loud, unmuffled race cars where what racing was all about. Since then we have had many changes. Some of them technological which produce more power at quieter levels. Some of them legislative, like OSHA. Some of them environmental, like increased noise restrictions at airports and racetracks. The point is that if we continue to associate loud cars with racing we may find people associate us with something they don't want in their town. It is much better than we regulate ourselves before we find rules imposed on us.

[Matt Rowe]

Along similar lines, F1's famous Spa circuit is at risk now due to noise concerns from the locals.

From Speed TV - http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... ian-court/

Excerpt:
Belgium also has a spot on next year's race schedule, but it was learned Wednesday that the famous and popular Spa-Francorchamps circuit has had its operating license revoked by a local administrative court.

The license has been rescinded until 2026, upon request by a board of local residents complaining about noise, according to the Belgian newspaper Le Soir.

[Rich Rock]

Hey Morg, you gettin' all this?

[SteveTC]

And I keep getting yelled at because my car is TOO QUIET!!!!

[Mwilson]

Deleted

[Ron Mann]

I usually don't get too involved with these type of discussions....but Matt does bring up some excellent points. Sometimes a photo can say more than words...

I'm all about the full affect of being at the hills; sight, sound & smell...but if noise issues jeopardize the future of hill climbing...something should be done.

[jerdeitzel]

FWIW, this issue is one reason I cannot bring my family to an event. My 1 son is very sensitive to loud noises. But, he also loves to watch race cars. I have had the family come out to watch auto-x and he just loves it. There is typically no issue until a loud cars starts up unexpected. Then it's pretty much time to go. Now if I were to drag them across the state, just leaving isn't much of an option. Now I don't blame anyone and realize this could happen even with sound control but, it is something that makes me scared to bring them.

Matts story just made me feel for that family that had to leave somewhere that Mom,Dad and children couldve had fun at. I've been there. And If we can do anything to make that happen, then I'm on board.

[Mary Anne Fieux]

Once again, here we go talking about noise and racing. Ya’ll were probably waiting for a 2-stroke response, well here it is, like it or not!

God forbid there is a ring-a-ding-ding SAAB, Mazda, or any other car you choose to dislike due to the tone or volume of the race car. Oh, how politically correct we have become as a racing group. Of course, those in favor of stricter rules on sound are waving around catch phrases from OSHA, individual race track rules and any other place/rule they can find which addresses noise and racing. BTW, Roebling Road’s (and other tracks) rules are in place due to the close proximity of residential housing units to the track. To top it off, now there is additional concern about the “cccchildren” attending events.

Chuck and I purchased a dB meter when the last “discussion” about sound was on the Forum. Tests were conducted utilizing the proper distances measured per the GCR rules; we even revved the SAAB for comparison. The car was totally within legal parameters. The next race after our dB readings was Giant’s Despair. At Giant’s Despair, we learned there were dB readings taken at the event by several individuals. “Surprisingly” after the event, the discussion fell silent, until now.

I foresee the future of PHA racing as a group of street sedan cars quietly making their way up the hills. Everyone will have a politically correct halo over their head and all will be well with PHA. However, eventually there will be something else to complain about.

Don’t even get me started on “parents” who bring their children to racing events and then complain about noise. Even adults, who come to racing events and complain about noise, annoy me. Most of all, drivers who complain about noise at racing events annoy me even more!!!!

If you have a concern about the sound of race cars hurting your child’s ears, LEAVE THE CHILDREN AT HOME!!! This is the same principal as if something on TV is not appropriate for a child, change the TV channel! I must say I saw ONE smart set of parents over the weekend. They had a headset on their child to protect the kid’s ears as they were walking down the old pit lane. This is what parents SHOULD do. Perhaps the PHA could sell earplugs at races? Furthermore, adults attending races offended by noise should stay home too. This is ef’n racing!

This discussion disgusts me. References to the “old days” without mufflers etc. and that this is 2009 and new rules need to apply….means to me that SAAB’s and other “loud cars” can use the back door out, unless we want to play by whatever new rules will or might be created.

Additionally, the perception of self-centeredness brings me full circle to our nation of politically correct people who want bumper pads on anything and everything which can cause harm to humans. America was founded upon many principals, which include free speech. The hardest and best part of being an American is standing next to a person whose opinion can make your blood boil, regardless of subject matter. This is true freedom. Watch yourselves; next, we will need official crossing guards so spectators can safely cross the pit road at Weatherly and other races. Spectators without proper ear protection will be denied access to the race. Tea will be served at high noon. Forget that, our forefathers dumped that crap in Boston.

I love the sound of racing. If my ears fail later in life due to rock-n-roll, racing and my mother yelling at me …so be it! I will be at a point in life at which it really will not matter. I really don’t want to hear how much time I have left, how bad/good I look, or “did ya hear Marge died this week”. With all the frustration of the SAAB not running this weekend after not being out all year, I’d rather hear it run for the short time it did, than hear humans whine about the sound of noisy race cars.

[FV195]

I minute of silence( pun intended) for Mary Anne's car.
so sorry for your loss
she was good to you even though you tryed to drive her wheels off.
THOR

[mrevilracing]

Hmm, should we really open this can of worms? Because it goes really really far and encompasses many aspects here. Not to mention, it's not something I am completely prepared to put on a public forum.

Dave, if the metering equipment is available, bring it out. We can put an end to this arguement once and for all. Many will be affected. Some won't be happy. If my car is over, I'll adjust to compliance.

Morg, I don't disagree with Matt's statements, experiences or observations. I am simply saying that there must be a standard to adhere to. The standards set forth by the SCCA, must be adhered to by ALL and not simply target this car or that car. As far as common ground, that's up to the SCCA to dictate. Then, it's up to the one of the officials at the event to enforce it. If no enforcement...then what? We wind up here.

Matt, since we are in the post season, this is a perfect oportunity to go to the Time Trials Board and discuss/create the sound rule as it specifically applies to hillclimbing. I'll even be happy to show up to a few of the hills so someone can sound meter the Mach. It would be a perfect opportunity to meter at different distances and locations.

Again, I'll say that this should be taken up at the 1st hill. Or will the burden be put on the driver to figure out whether or not he/she is in compliance with the db level?

MaryAnne, thanks for your response. Racing is LOUD, OBNOXIOUS and EGOTISTICAL(I like this because the Mach screams it)! Sooner or later we'll be racing cars that produce no noise and emit water vapor as well as clean the street as they scoot up the road. Ooo, that reminds me...just think if the cars made NO noise. How many spectators could I clobber at Pagoda or Duryea???? They JUMP off the road when they hear my car coming, for now........