PA Hillclimb

Unfortunatly, a RX-7 with a 302 puts you in Special 3(run what ya brung over 3500cc), which requires a FULL GCR CAGE and you will face anything from an ex-Rahal Indy car to a big block s-10 blazer.
We did have a guy run that combination before, See the History section of the forums, it is somewhere under the topic of Specials.
We can not promise you that you will be competive, but you will have a place to play.

Rich

Sorry it took so long to get back to you bro, yeah, I was in the white M3 at weatherly.

Welcome Iownthemountains13,

I'm on the same learning curve as you, and am learning from your thread. I started out focusing on the suit issue, so perhaps some of my research will help you.

From what I read in the '08 Time Trial Rules, there are the following allowable ratings:

SFI 3-2a/1 - single layer suits, approved underwear required.

SFI 3-2a/5 - multi layer, no Flame Resistant (FR) underwear required.

FIA 8856-1986 and FIA 8856-2000 - I think these are both multi layer ratings, but not sure.

FR underwear - "approved type" there's a list of what's approved in the GCR, both by type and brand name, but there doesn't appear to be a specific rating required.

Gloves and shoes - Leather / approved fabric. ANYONE KNOW IF LEATHER TENNIS SHOES WITH LITTLE PERFORATIONS PASS?

FR Balaclava - for those with facial hair. ANYONE KNOW IF AN OPEN CAR REQUIRES BALACLAVA? IF SO, WHAT CONSTITUTES AN OPEN CAR: ROADSTER, FORMULA, ETC.?

Not sure if the '09 rules will change any of this, as always verify any info to be sure.

In addition there are several different fabrics which a rated suit may be made of:

CarbonX - Newest, best, most comfortable, most expensive

Nomex - an aramid fiber licensed by DuPont. The material itself is FR, therefore cleaning won't substantially reduce it's properties. I've seen some questions raised about whether it's the best thing to have next to the skin if the fire gets that far.

Treated Fabrics - Proban and others. Essentially cotton with a FR chemical added. Meets SFI standards when new, may require retreatment after cleaning.

Since I've got no immediate need, my approach has been to patiently watch used stuff on Ebay, with several saved searches for Nomex, fire suit, etc.

Here's a handy size chart covering many of the popular makers: http://www.saferacer.com/help.php?section=sizechart

First I picked up a Simpson single layer Nomex suit. then a couple sets of new nomex long undies, 2 pr. gloves, shoes, and last a nice Pyrotect multi-layer suit which was at least $800 new. So for two outfits I have about $460 invested so far, still need socks and a helmet. Rich Rock advised me to try helmets on before I buy, echoed by others here so I'll probably look locally for that. Rich suggested Susquehanna Motorsports. ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE CARE TO SUGGEST LOCAL VENDORS?

Hope this helps, my appproach may not be for everybody, but to my cheapa$$ soul getting there safely and for less is part of the fun. If anybody can correct/clarify any of the above, please chime in!

---Jim

Jim, What the heck? No wonder it has taken you so long to get going. You research too much

Okay here is our problem. Some just show up without a clue of what is acceptable, while others take years to try to achieve the feeling of "if I get it right the first time, I'm a racer?"

The message here is, how can we shorten the process for everyone?

A fair warning. If you are experienced, even a little, in autocrosses and try a couple of hills, you will become addicted. HIllclimbing is a special test, it is run by and supported by very special people.....Run one or two events, and you will be back for more. You know it is a great place to compete when your competitors are right there helping you trouble shoot and fix your car, you know it is a great place when you realize NO ONE will get on your case for going slowly as you learn, it is a great experience when you realize your first goal is to get to the top, your second goal is to go a little faster each time, and your third goal is to take the car home as you brought it...in one piece...and your final goal is to have a fun weekend...and you will.
So, prepare slowly and carefully. Safety first, then gears & tires, and finally horsepower. When I first started ('63) I started in a totally stock EP Porsche....did OK, so I started to build up the engine, and went a little faster. Then I tried Dick Sweigart's car, also an EP Porsche, and it was a bloody rocket !!..It pulled so hard in 3rd and 4th that I could barely catch my breath...then he told me what gears he was running and advised that I was coming at it backwards. Yes, HP is important, but keep it in the power curve (gears) on good tires and you will have a fun ride. Radical HP comes later as the budget, knowledge and skill permits.
See you on the hills. IF you can make the 2/7 PHA meeting on Fleetwood, you can meet those who can probably answer all of your questions. If not, so be it, see you in the Spring.

will this cage work for s3 class and can i still use the stock seats http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m ... ode=AP6590

dspgti wrote:

Jim, What the heck? No wonder it has taken you so long to get going. You research too much

Sorry Dave, I don't say as much as some people but when I do I try to be organized, informative and accurate, just my nature I guess!

The message here is, how can we shorten the process for everyone?

Exactly why I went into so much detail, for those who follow. Can some of these discussions be organized into "stickies" for us noobs to find easier?

5.0,

What do you mean by stock seats?


Rich

i mean does the s3 class require racing seats.

5.0rx wrote:will this cage work for s3 class and can i still use the stock seats http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m ... ode=AP6590

I was kind of hoping one of the tech guys would have jumped in here to answer your roll cage question. My understanding for Specials is: If it is a "street type car" you would use IT or Production specs. Well ,fisrt of all IT and Production are different, but let's go with IT.

If you look at the picture, the answer is NO. Yet, if you read the discription, it would meet SCCA IT specs. That means the cage needs TWO horizontal or diagonal tubes across the Driver And Passanger side doors. The picture shows only one tube on each side. Contact them for clarrification, it might just be an old photo.

I wish the Time Trials commitee would clarrify the one piece seat issue. Is it required this year, next year, when? Do yourself a favor. Get a one piece seat, mount it properly. It should save weight, improve your comfort while racing and be a lot safer.

Just another opinion,
Dave Y

In the description it says there are 2 extra bars not shown for the door. So i guess that mean this will work.

Looks to me that the cage is legal. As long as Dave is right about a "street type" car requiring IT safety for the special class. Where do you find the rules for this? Is this in the supps?

I'm also curious as to what happened to the rule about the seat. I remember the issue being about the passenger seat meeting the same "new" requirements as the driver seat. And i could've sworn i remember seeing in fastrack that the wording was changed for the passenger seat to say recommended instead of required? Now it seems there is no requirement for racing seat in the rules? I think if they change things in the rule book they should maybe put an asterick or something, noting a change has been made to the rule.

Yup, I didn't read it correctly and the two extra bars are included. Did you catch the part about fitting and welding the two extra bars? A little bit of a pain to bolt everyting in and then go to someone to weld in the extra bars but that will work.

Let me just restate a point: That is my opinion if your car is a street type. You know, real glass, lights, some interior? Some body panels could be composite but not full tilt noses and tube frame chassis. If you drive it on the street now and has a state inspection, no problem. If not, would it be close to passing? (emissions not included)

Dave Y.

Jeremy, are you refering to the GCR, Time Trials or SOLO II Rule book?

Time trials rule book. I really don't think that my memory is that bad. As this was kinda a big deal

The 2009 rules are not out yet. Maybe Matt Rowe can tell us what will be changed. They usually have a heavy black line in the border next to a new rulle change.

Dave Y

yes it would be very close to passing beside emissions wise still a stock car just gutted still has both seats all glass.

The only thing you would need in the interior would be the dash or part or it with the top pad. Everything else could be gutted. You could even take out the driver door glass.

Dave Y

I'm good then i still have a dash and door panels. Just no carpet or rear interior pieces are then any other safety items a s3 needs to have and i forgot to mention its carbed what the rules on fuel lines and fuel pump location mine is in the engine bay would they have a prob with that and what the rule on rubber hose cause alot of it is rubber for now but its only filled with 4psi of pressure. But i'd rather know if i have to make changes now then the day of the race.

Fuel lines need to be metal or metal braided ONLY if they pass thru the driver compartment. Did I mention passenger seat was not required?

Dave Y.

Did we mention the kill switch yet? Can someone confirm? I think it's required in Specials?