PA Hillclimb

I spent awhile this morning pouring over the PDFs on the SCCA website. But im still not 100% sure what class i should be running in. Im thinking in the production category, either level 1 or 2, but im not sure.

Generally speaking prepared seemed to be 1990 and newer model years, which i have a 1985, so that is out.

Improved Touring states no turbo/supercharged vechiles. So again, that is out.

And that basically only let me with Production. Is my assumption correct? I want to start building my car, but i would like to avoid doing silly things that create problems for myself.

Take a look at the solo rulebook, there is probably a street prepared or modified class you can fit into unless you have some really wild modifications.

There are turbo cars in IT but I am pretty sure they all run in ITE.

Brandon

The dodge omni is in FSP

Grace

Grace, FSP, no turbos, I'm thinking SM or SM2

GLH turbos are in DSP according to 2007 Rules. As long as your modifications are in the Street Prepaired guidlines and rules don't change for 2008.

Keep in mind there has been a suggestion presented to PHA to outlaw all turbos in Street Mod classes. Can't say it will happen but perhaps you can be involved in the meetings to give input. That might not be practical from your location but input can be given on your behalf. If you would like to have a conversation with the proposer, Mike Ancas, I'd recommend you contact him direct. He is Speednation located in Pittsburgh.

That might be a moot point if you modify your car beyond Street Prepared guidlines. Street Mod is you next choice. Pretty much lets you do anything as long as it is street legal and the driveline parts remain the same manufacturer.

Good Luck
Dave Y.

There is a proposal to outlaw turbos in street mod or street prep?

There has been such a proposal put forth and some discussion but just that... There is no reason for you not to campaign a turbo car at this time or in the future. No turbos would put a fair number of competitors out of action.

it looks like im in SM1 just due to my motor selection. I really dont care to run the motor as a complete unit. Plus, its a 2.5 so it already put me out of the class. But OTHERWISE, the car is basically a street prepared. Its just the motor (the fun stuff) puts me right into street modified. Which i dont mind seeing i also intended on using a steering quickener, which might i add is vaguely described on how to be installed by 16.1.f.1 like its states....grrrr

FV195 wrote:Grace, FSP, no turbos, I'm thinking SM or SM2

Actually, it doesn't say that. The FSP entry says:

Chrysler / Dodge / Plymouth
Acclaim 4-cyl non-turbo
Arrow 1600 & 2000 & 2600
Champ non-turbo (all)
Colt FWD non-turbo
Colt non-turbo (8V)
Colt RWD 1600 & 2000
Daytona non-turbo
Horizon & TC3 & Turismo, 1.7L
& 1.8L & 2.2L
Laser all non-turbo (‘89-’99)
Omni & 024 & Charger
Rampage 2.2L
Sapporo 1600 & 2000 & 2600
Shelby 2.2L non-turbo (’83-
’84)
Spirit 4-cyl non-turbo

Nothing about Omni non-turbo. Just Omni. I'm reading that as legal for FSP as long as it meets the rest of the Street Prepared rules.

What am I missing?

Grace

Grace, the cars in FSP are the normally aspirated omnis, horizons, etc.; the turbo'd omnis-like the GLH- are in DSP...

Let me clarrify. Mike Ancas proposed a rule to delete (maybe a better term) the turbos from D Street Prepared. The logic is that is SOLO I turbos are not that much of an advantage. Also SCCA has kind of given up on trying to enforce non modification of turbo controls in SP. Uncontrolled turbos in a hillclimb is an unfair advantage.

I agree with Mike for that and other reasons. Should I say it and have the ugly head reappear(yes ). Turbo cars are too fast for roll bars only!

I have an alternate proposal for the next meeting. No turbos (in SP)unless the entrant can prove absolutly no modifications to turbo or any controls, certify boost limit or some such wording.

Mind you this is talk, not rules yet. Your input would be appreciated.

As far as you Street Mod guys....the sky is the limit. Be smart, put a cage in it

It almost sounds like Mike has a DSP car hidden somewhere that he could get a record in as long as there are no turbos out there to take it away from him . Just Kidding!

All kidding aside I thought 4 cylinder turbo cars ran in BSP for hillclimbs? Or is it another forgotten rule that has not appeared in the sups for a few years so it is just forgotten about.

Matt Green ran his Charger in BSP for a few years.

Never heard that rule before. The Street Prepared catagories got shuffled a few years ago. My Rabbit went from DSP to FSP with no changes.

All SP turbo cars run BSP in hillclimbs? That doesnt seem very logical.

There was a change-by PHA-back in the early to mid-90s which moved the turbo cars (my recollection of it invoved a Dodge Colt Turbo) to BSP...what happened to that change is lost in time (I think we went back to the SOLO I car classification).

So, the precedent has been set by PHA in the past? Might be a solution to consider to resolve this debate. It might not have to involve bumping to BSP. CSP might be enough. We would have to look at manufacturing spec of rated HP to weight on a case by case basis.

All you SM turbo guys can relax. This is Street Prepared. Bumping turbo cars would require they comply with all SP rules for thier respective class including turbo boost limiting controls.

Thought we'd have heard from Matt G by now.

I agree Dave, case by case and car by car is the way to do it... But my statement about the bump not being logical is mostly due to the raging debate amongst the cone-wackers involving BSP. The C4 vettes cant keep up with the STi's in BSP and this is making people very upset... If the vette guys are having issues I feel bad for the rest of BSP fields out there trying to keep with the AWD turbo cars that are compliant, let alone the people stretching the rules in those types of cars.

Here is an example: take Weatherly

Subaru WRX ran Rally, could also be BSP, has record at 60.8
BSP record 58.8
CSP record 60.8
DSP record 63.1
Turbo Mazda 323 in DSP form ran in 2006 60.1

The driver of the 323 was questioned on class legal and moved to SM but may have been able to make a case to stay in DSP. My favorite future project is an Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Quattro. That would be in DSP unless something would change. Don't think I'd have a problem bettering 63.1 in that car.

I may have put my foot in my mouth about case by case. That might be a big task.

More input needed
Dave Y

After checking back at this thread it did occur to me that in the time frame I was talking about there was no such thing as a WRX STi or Lancer EVO. Those 2 cars changed the game. All we had were Shelby Chargers, GLH's and the Colt Turbo.

Like it was already said, A case by case might need to be looked into. It could turn into a slippery slope if were are not careful though.


Oh,, and Dave is right,, WHERE THE HECK IS MATT GREEN ON THIS ONE???

How about this idea? All turbo/huffer cars would be put in Street Mod except those cars that would qualify for Showroom Stock like the Mini Cooper S.

Dave Y.