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Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:53 pm
by jerdeitzel
Ah i get it. I think i do actually remember the cars your talking about. Now wouldn't we all just fall over to see a new WRC car come, and give it go? I would!! Now i'd have to expect a prepped tarmac WRC car most likely would be under 110.00's at Duryea. SO much torque.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:15 am
by NJ 03Mach1
My thoughts are this..


#1, in my opinion, as well as others this discussion is similar to this...

Image





#2, no matter what rules we change, or set or what have you... the PHA will never be as cool as this.

Image




And, in case you didn't notice... This was a pointless post interjected for humor.





I now allow you to continue with the regularly scheduled rantings of Dave Y.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:54 am
by Joe Foering
Dave, I have a copy of the 2008 Duryea and Weatherly Supps in my hand and both contain this statement under CAR ELIGIBILITY: "...Historic, Vintage and Rally classes will also be eligible as per the SCCA TTR and these supplemental regulations." There is no other reference to Rally in the Supps.
There is a reference to Rally under 10.1- Classifications in the TTR starting with "Other classes may be adopted locally as needed...All such classes will be listed in the Supplemental Regulations for the series or event." I cannot find any other reference to Rally in the TTR.
I believe that, in order to run SPU and SPO at an event, the sanctioning region of an event must have declared these classes eligible for Regional Racing; please correct me if I'm wrong.
I agree that the forum is the proper place for discussion, but sometimes it appears that we're getting a little strident about topics and advocating change just for the sake of change.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:55 am
by dspgti
Joe Foering wrote:
I believe that, in order to run SPU and SPO at an event, the sanctioning region of an event must have declared these classes eligible for Regional Racing; please correct me if I'm wrong.
Did Steel City Region declare them eligible for Polish Mt? I don't know, I was never there or never read an entry. I think Gordan Wise ran another Hill in his Mazda in SPO. Where was that declared? TTR states we MUST include all National and Regional CR Classes. The problem is, each "Region" can have there own specs on a class. The Division does step in and help unify the specs when a series is involved like MARRS. This applies to ITE as well which several others have brought up to clarrify. Who's series specs would we adopt? MARRS, NARRC, NYRRC, NJRRS etc?

My own opinion is SPO and SPU are already covered by Specials and in fact gives them a little more seperation due to 3 classes based on cc's instead of 2. As for ITE? That will need defining.

We got a lot of work to do at the up coming meetings.

Dave Y.
Rant On! :lol:

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:12 pm
by dspgti
I have a new idea. :twisted: At first I was going to post a propsal to join Street Mod 1 and 2 together. On the SOLO II side they think the 2 door coupes have an advantage. Recorded times at our events show no advantage, so why have 2 classes? Now I have an idea for 3 classes instead. :wink:

How about 3 leveles of Street Mod?
SM..C :coupes and sedans, 2 wheel drive, normally asperated, otherwise by the book for SM, Roll Bar
requirements. up to 3000cc
SM..B: coupe or sedan, 2 WD, over 3000cc, all forced induction by SP rules, alternate engine manufacturer if
normally asperated, all cars bumped from Street Prepared with forced induction/restrictions
Roll Bar requirements. (Maybe AWD normally asperated as well?)
SM..A: All Wheel Drive, unlimited boost, unlimited suspension mods, unlimited engine swap. Full cage
by IT specs.

You know I'm the last guy that wants to add a class but I think you will see we can drop a few in the near future.

Just thinking out load here.
Dave Y

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:01 pm
by Joe B.
Good idea Dave, I like it. It just might give me a new outlook on my car.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:33 pm
by Mark Aubele
Nah, I still think we could just combine SM and SM2. Money is the only thing stopping me (or anyone else) from showing up with a 750 horse ex-NASCAR motor in a street driven mustang. Forced induction has no real horsepower advantage when you take money out of the equation. It does to a certain extent, but in the grand scheme of things, I could slap a blower on mustang and make 500 rwhp, or I could bore and stroke a 351W out to 427 and easily make 500 rwhp with the right top end. All wheel drive? Big advantage but if anyone wants to complain I can provide them with very accurate directions to their nearest Subaru or Mitsubishi dealership.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:22 pm
by dspgti
deleted

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:15 pm
by dspgti
I tried to write something funny. It didn't come out very good so I deleted it.

Dave Y

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:14 am
by Mark Aubele
Don't worry Dave, I won't have any big power this year either. The budget is only allowing me to push a stock short block to the absolute limits! HUGE cam, trick flow heads, and a victor jr. with a prehistoric 750 dp on top. Oh yeah, and dremeled pistons for valve clearance. It's going to blow up before it makes it to a hillclimb!

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:41 pm
by dspgti
you have a point about how much horse power out of normaly asperated. Perhaps SM/C should have a cc limit like 3000? I'm adding that in above.

Dave Y.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:11 pm
by dspgti
Okay, Brand New Idea. Let's go back to a two class idea.

SM1: All cars normally asperated up to 3800cc and all cars forced induction by Street Prepared restrictions. (the poor guys that get bumped from SP)

SM2: All other street cars, unlimited boost, alternate manufacturer engine swaps, alternate suspension upgrades. (I'd like to add the IT roll cage requirement here but I'm open to discussion)

Dave Y

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:48 pm
by mrevilracing
I'm not tryin to be a pain in the butt....however....I can't see a reason to combine SM and SM2. The times really aren't that close. I could see maybe .5 sec, but not 1.5 and up.

Spring Jefferson – 56.611(SM) 58.848(SM2) 2.237 diff
Spring Weatherly – 56.315(SM) 57.571(SM2) 1.256 diff
Pagoda – 58.334(SM) 59.840(SM2) 1.506 diff
Giants – 45.569(SM) 48.394(SM2) 2.825 diff
Rose Valley ??? No records listed on the PHA site
Polish Mtn – 58.505(SM) No SM2 listed
Duryea – 116.289(SM) 123.913(SM2) 7.624 diff
Fall Jefferson – 57.606(SM) 63.621(SM2) 6.015 diff
Fall Weatherly – 56.315(SM) 57.571(SM2) 1.256 diff

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:15 pm
by dspgti
Steve, you have it backwards. Yes, you have the times right but SOLO II thinks SM2 should be faster. It's that darn EVO and Mark's old Mustang that is messing things up. 8)

When Street Mod started it was the Turbo Eclipse AWD, Mitsi 3000GT, Turbo MR2's, and the 3rd gen RX7 turbo's that were the threat. So they put them in a different class. Jeremy and Mark proved that it's not the car, it's the driver. :shock:

Dave Y.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:33 pm
by dspgti
Just to punch up your list a little Steve. At Rose Valley Mark has the SM record at 59.791. Jeff Fazio has the SM2 record at 62.007. I think at one time Fazio held most of the SM2 records and they were faster than most SM records but that all started to fade away. A year or two ago, Fazio was trying to sell his car on some web site, maybe ebay, I don't remember. The ad read, "holds 10 PHA Class records". I sent him an email and said please correct your ad, you are down to three.

Dave Y

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:44 pm
by mrevilracing
Ok. Then I'll ask this question: Is the split between SM and SM2 dictated by SCCA?

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:01 pm
by dspgti
I want to answer that question because I love a contraversy but maybe we should let Matt answer that one.

Dave Y.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:42 am
by Matt Rowe
Yes, the SM classes are a national solo class and the difference between SM and SM2 is defined in the solo rule book.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:46 am
by mrevilracing
Thanks Matt.

I guess there won't be any combination of SM & SM2 until it's cleared and dictated by National. Yes? I will assume that this isn't something the regions can do on their own.

Re: Street Prepared Turbo cars should be moved to SM and SM2

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 am
by Matt Rowe
The rule is written such that anyone with a car prepared to SM or SM2 should be allowed to participate, but the regions are allowed to combine or restructure the classes as needed. So we could combine the classes if we desired and stated that in the supps.