"trouble spots"

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:24 pm

I'm interested in starting a discussion on some of the spots on the various hills that offer potential pitfalls to the weary traveler.

At Duryea, we have:

turn #6, "Oh Crap" with it's previously filled pot hole to unsettle the suspension

turn #7 has a metal sewer grate on this inside beyond the apex

turn #9 has a sewer grate with stone wall right where you might be tracking out

What else am I missing for "trouble spots" at Duryea, and what others can you add to start discussion on the other hills. (Is there a sewer grate near #11?)

Thank you,

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:18 am

Just a little historic backround. The common nickname for turn six does not come from the pot hole on the outside. The name was around alot longer than that pot hole. The name comes from the illusion that the turn is sharper than it really is. So when a driver would lift REALLY early or brake REALLY hard the common thought was "Oh S**T I could have done that ALOT faster". Back when I started racing in '95 the fastest line was to get as close as possable to the guard rail and stradle the pot hole taking a nice late apex. Setting the car up perfectly to hug the posts up to 7. Now that depression is way to big for me to even think about doing it.

Oh,, and the grate on the inside of 7, that is my target. When I can hit that without having to fight the car over to it I know that I got 7 right

But anyway, how about the rocks on the outside of 10? They get pretty close. And the pucker factor of holding the throttle wide open going over the blind hump at 11 leading down to the airplane field.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:38 am

I was aware of the other reasoning behind 6 having it's name, but thanks

I take a very conservative line through 6 as I rather throw time away than the car. I enter 6 with my d-side tire on the center line and when I come out my p-side front tire is on the center line. I avoid both sides of the road completely ... between the pot hole on the right and the last foot or tow on the left being angled so hard into the mountain - forget it.

I have yet to go through 11 at WOT ... not sure that is physically possible in my car. Maybe I just need more pucker?

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:27 pm

There's a dip on the left side of the S's coming out of turn 5, just before the corner workers on the right with the gigantic waving hand and cardboard ladies (my personal favorite part of the weekend).........anyway, if you get too far over to the left going through those S's, you can catch this dip with the driver's side tires under serious excelleration, lightening up the driver's side suspension and forcing the car into an end-around spin. It's much worse in wet weather than it is in dry, however high horsepower cars are very suceptible to this no matter what the conditions are. I think it's the same dip that led to Jerry Hartman's barrel roll down the straight.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:40 pm

Thanks for the input guys ...

... what about the other hills?

Sue Salsburg · Post by **Sue Salsburg** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:56 pm

Interesting thread but aren't the vagrancies of public roads what defines "Hillclimbing"? Why the roadracers think we're nuts? And BTW, our hills are glass smooth compared to New England hills like Ascutney, Burke & Okemo. Just ask Butch. I'm so grateful to still have our hills, that I'll happily drive around the bumps & use the rocks for aiming points.

Mwilson · Post by **Mwilson** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:04 pm

Well said Sue. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:31 pm

I think sharing information is fun, informative and a great way to make all of us better drivers. I don't think any of us were complaining about the road conditions. We're just simply discussing characteristics of the different tracks we run.

Joe Foering · Post by **Joe Foering** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:41 pm

At Duryea, there is a spot coming out of turn 5 against the right hand "fence" where my car hits a "rut" or something (I can't find it when I look for it) that really unsettles the car...I imagine that, if I were a big-engine car, it could prove really dangerous...has anyone else experienced that?

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:55 pm

dlascoskie wrote:I think sharing information is fun, informative and a great way to make all of us better drivers. I don't think any of us were complaining about the road conditions. We're just simply discussing characteristics of the different tracks we run.

100% correct.

I'm in the process of compiling all sorts of information on the hills.
Making a note of the nuiances of each hill is just part of the process.

And I agree, the quirky characteristics of the roads we are on make the sport much more intriguing, but it would be foolish not to take note of them.

All I'm doing here is gathering information for current & future racers to "study." The library will be open soon enough

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:43 am

dlascoskie wrote:I think it's the same dip that led to Jerry Hartman's barrel roll down the straight.

That would be me, not Jerry. Jerry has taking out a bunch of posts going into 7 and going through the trees on the right side of 11. I was the Moron who thought the coarse was dry enough to try and break the A-Sedan record. It was bone dry ,,except for under the trees at 5. The shade tricked me and I thought the dark road was just from not getting sun. I stabbed the clutch and tried to save it but I was already gone.
On a brighter note though I got the A-Sedan record with a 61.7 the next time I raced at Pagoda

.

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:24 am

Woops, sorry about that Steve.......and Jerry

But am I right on the dip ? Because I think that dip has been a problem for a few cars over the years.

Joe Foering · Post by **Joe Foering** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:33 pm

The dip or rut does exist! I think Bruce Griffith may have lost a car there as a result of it.

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:18 pm

Thanks Joe. You've hit it too, huh?
As for the dip you found on the outside of/after 5, I haven't experienced that one. But it sounds like you're apexing pretty early if your out wide on the exit of that turn. A little later turn in could gain you some MPH. Take it for what it's worth though, coming from a guy that is constantly trailing your times by 1-2 seconds......lol.

And Steve, "taking out a bunch of posts going into 7" sounds an awful lot like me at Duryea last year. lol. Glad I'm in good company on choosing my line!

svann · Post by **svann** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:16 pm

From my experience: Thinking too much about "trouble" can cause you to find it. Just my opinion. I do appreciate you efforts to produce a course guide to all the hills. I just won't study the trouble spot section.

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:41 pm

I have to agree with Stan. All this worriment about small dips and ripples in the pavement is too much information for a novice or 2nd year driver. What a novice needs to know is how dangerous a turn is and what the safest line thru the turn is, then all we can hope for is that the novice was listening and respects the hill enough to work up to full speed and not do anything stupid.
My father always told everyone that it really takes 5 yrs. to learn a hill and be able to drive it without thinking about every section of the hill.

Rich

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:42 pm

oh, ok, in that case we'll stop

and when did this become a "novice" instruction sheet? According to Jeff, it's for current drivers and newcomers. I actually enjoy walking the courses, studying the lines and bouncing ideas off of other drivers in the pursuit of speed and safety. I'm fine with others not wanting to be part of that........I think it's foolish, but I'm fine with it.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:31 am

Maybe we should just get rid of the novice instruction then.
... words I have often heard during the PHA novice instruction,
"I'll show you the path and the pitfalls along the way."

Why should a novice not be aware that there is a sewer grate on the other side of a blind turn?

Regardless of the novices, as someone who has done the hills for 3 years (at least some of them), I sure would appreciate refreshing, reminding and being completely aware of any potential "trouble spots."

Sometimes I wonder why I am putting so much time and energy into
creating something that could be truly beneficial to the community.

negativity = motivation killer

Thanks for the support & input.

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33 am

Jeff,

Some people may disagree with the scope of your effort. But there are also people who agree with and support what you would like to do. I will be glad to help out. I think it is a good idea to let people on the fence know about all the things to look for. I can see someone reading info you provide and going to the hill to see things for themselves. With a "guide" it might help to get a few more people involved.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:13 pm

For what I am doing to truly work, it will need a lot of people's input on a lot of different factors.

This whole thing is being set up with:
*in-car videos from the various hills from various drivers
*aerial photos of the courses
*still photos of the courses (yes, I spent an entire weekend driving around photographing them - have to do Reading yet)
*lists of places to stay
*lists of places to eat
*where specators park
*where to find restrooms
*links to weather & directions
*and much, much more

... in fact, this whole project isn't just the PHA hills, it's all the hills.

... all the road courses ... all the drag strips (already 240 strips + listed on the site) and will even have all of the parking lots used for autocrosses.

This is a HUGE project. I've created about 200 Web pages since last Monday (15th) ... I've been averaging 10-15 new pages everyday.

I was hoping that, this thread, would help fill out one of those pages on each hill.

For those that are contributing, thank you.

I am open to adding anything and everything to make this site as comprehensive as possible.

**side note - there is an image of a specific race car on the hillclimb page and that photo reloads every time the page is loaded. It's different driver/car each time the page is reloaded or refreshed. If you want your car to be uploaded, you need to contribute at least one of the following to the Site:

*Share an in-car video of your car competing at one of the events or tracks listed on this site.
*Share a photograph of your car competing at one of the events or tracks listed on this site.
*Write an article to help out your fellow racers.
*Submit tips on where to stay, where to eat, your evaluation on a particular course.

At least 6 drivers have submitted in-car videos ... if anyone else has them please feel free to send them to me. The more footage we have, the more people can view to learn the course - especially from cars/drivers of different capabilities.

Thank you,