Flintstone Update

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:48 am

Hear, hear on the "moderation in investigation" thought on Gilpin Road.

First and foremost, you guys are going to really be pleased with the kind of reception this event is going to receive from the community down here in Allegany Couny, Maryland. Our local organizing group has been consistently publicizing the benefits of motor sports for economic development since 2002...and we have staged over 20 competition events including SCCA Road Rally events and high speed autocrosses at the Cumberland Airport. We have public support, sponsor support, government support and safety agency support in place.

But please also understand that we are holding our formal media announcement about the August event back, as not to pre-empt the final official State Highways approval and the officially adopted PHA schedule.

Many local Flintstone folks in and around the hill have gotten word of the event from the local volunteer fire company and are very excited and supportive. But, the formal process of SHA road closure will most likely require a formal, publicized community informational meeting...we're on the top of that and will make sure it goes well, but the last thing we need is one or two ruffled howeowners on MD 144 or Gilpin Road to stand up and complain about the increased number of hot rodders blowing by their front porch.

We understand how eager many are to experience the hill. From all accounts it seems like it's going to be great new venue for hillclimbing, but the permissions are arduous and delicate as I'm sure your organizers understand. It has taken our National Road group literally five years to get this far in bringing sports car competition back to the Cumberland area.

With complete disclosure/confession that I have driven the hill once or twice in my Porsche 944 Turbo S, our guys limit our visits these days to toddling tours in Suburbans and pickups as not to upset the apple cart.

Patience padawans! An exciting new hill and really good event are on the way if we mind our "Ps and Qs".

All good.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:55 am

I think too much is being read into or assumed about my words.

All I said, was that I would "be shooting the video of this course."
I never even remotely implied that I would be a "hot rodder blowing by their front porch."

I clearly stated "I'm sure we would all appreciate a simple visual."

This has nothing to do with being "eager" to experience the hill.
This has to do with a huge project that I have been working on for quite some time.
I've been documenting all of the hills so everyone
has a resource to be able to see the details of each hill and learn the course.

Call me crazy, but if people can get online and just see the course ...
maybe that would dissuade them from going out and "eagerly" experiencing the course first-hand.

What I am doing is for everyone's education, not for my practice.

Cumberland Racer, if you have the means to shoot a simple video of the course and e-mail (or postal mail) me a copy,
I would greatly appreciate it as it would save me a lot of time. I have no need to do this personally.

Thank you,

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:58 am

All good and understood. Wasn't assuming you were planning practice runs...just chiming in for all that we don't get a second chance at a first impression in this new host community.

Getting some in-car video is on our radar as it was discussed as being of interest for the upcoming PHA meeting as well. If it saves you the trip now that winter has begun to become reality we'll be glad to grab some and post it. Your point is well taken that the more info we can share without descending on Flintstone before we're announced, the better.

redline designs · Post by **redline designs** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:54 am

yes, i also wasnt meaning i was gonna post the vid of me "hot rodding" up the hill....i was just gonna simply post it up for a full veiw of the course for everyones veiwing pleasures. just cause i drive a honda doesnt mean im a dumb ricer

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:57 am

redline designs or Cumberland Racer,

Do either of you have the ability to shoot a video of the course, get into WMV, MPG or AVI format and e-mail it to me?

My project is coming along much faster than I expected (bust my butt this weekend!) and I am just about ready to release it, but I would like video of this course to ad to it.

Thanks,

redline designs · Post by **redline designs** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:43 pm

redline designs or Cumberland Racer,

Do either of you have the ability to shoot a video of the course, get into WMV, MPG or AVI format and e-mail it to me?

ill try my best to get it this week, i have to barrow a friends camera, mine is from 1986 and is as big as a microwave.

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:13 am

We're on it guys. Have created provisional names for the turns to assist navigation and fighter jockey paddock talk and will burn same on vid, as soon as the pavement dries a bit from recent snow. Other names may evolve as you steady hands get on the hill, of course

Here's a preview

Start:

Turn 1: Poling Corner (named after Doc Poling, a founding organizer of the old Breakneck Road Hillclimbs in 1955-56, still an avid fan) - Left hand sweeper starts the climb to the top of Polish Mountain

Turns 2A and 2B: Flintstone - Longish double apex right hander

First Straight: Ascension Alley - Straightest, longest stretch on the course, flies up the hill in a hollow with cliffs to your right and nothing much but armco and air to your left

Turn 3: The Corkscrew - Sharpest curve, tons of compression in a steep left hand switchback that crosses up out of the hollow

Turn 4: Breakneck (named in honor of the 50's events one mountain to the east) - Descriptive name as the compression suddenly goes away, the road turns right and gravity ceases to be your traction-buddy

Turn 5: Big Ben (or Big Balls in the unprinted version) - really the second half of Breakneck, another likely unloaded right hander that may separate the men from the boys

Second Straight: The Chute - the guys who get out of 5 with the biggest Bens will go best here

Turn 6A and 6B: The Esses - left and right hand combination, flatter than The Corkscrew

Turn 7: Kegg Curve (named after the long time sports editor of the Cumberland Times News who covered the Cumberland Nationals at the Airport from 1953 to 1971) - We figured it would be a good thing to put the keg near the end

Finish

Video with corners burned in as graphics is coming.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:42 am

Cumberland Racer, thanks for that write up.

Are 6a/b the "gentle curves" near the 4th red dot in the photo below (counting from the left) or are they the significant curves directly below the I-68 marker?

Is Kegg Curve directly below the Rt 144 marker in the image?

Rich said in post #6 on the other side that there were 9 turns,
I assume the difference in the count is the turns with an A & B?

thanks again

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:59 am

The gentle curves are "The Chute" and The Esses (6A/6B) are the tighter ones below the I-68 sign and yes, Kegg Corner is the shallow right directly under the 144 sign.

Yes, the difference between 9 and 7 turns would be our 2A/2B designation for the right hand double apex "Flinstone Corner" immediately after the start and the 6A/6B "Esses" referred to above.

Again, these are provisional names provided for some whimsy and ease of discussion. Your actual experience may differ at speed

redline designs · Post by **redline designs** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:56 pm

here is a quickie of the hill....enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GU7o6WsSo

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:51 pm

redline, can you please e-mail me what you uploaded?

jekylhyderacing@yahoo.com

thanks,

Mwilson · Post by **Mwilson** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:50 pm

Just watched the video. Weatherly could become a "Super Highway" compared to this road. Maybe it was the video, but I think I saw a lot of dips, bumps, and a ton of patches. Not real good for Formula cars. I'm hoping it was just the way the video was shot. Or maybe you just have a real bad set of shocks.

Looks like a fun hill. Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to film the hill. PLEASE TELL ME I"M WRONG.

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:51 pm

Hey Morg

Looking at the video makes me realize the camera must have been held by a person rather than being mounted to the car. Also I agree the car could use a new set of shocks. The road patches look like they could have been ice, snow salt patches rather than breaking up road surface. I want to see that one dip though... it looks like it could swallow a small car. Where is the finish line in respect to cresting the hill at the end of the video. We might be carrying to much speed at the top if the crest is part of the run. Other than that it looks like it will be fast. Anyone care to shed more light on the road surface.

Kurt

dlascoskie · Post by **dlascoskie** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:44 am

STEEP!!

I thought this was hillclimbing, not wall climbing!

Seriously though, the road looks smooth and wide to me. Guess I need my eyes checked.

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:15 am

Thanks for the preview vid, Chad! OK, so we took you guys a little too literally on this hillclimbing thing...guess they do call it Polish MOUNTAIN for a reason, ya know.

Road IS smooth and wide, though, the patch appearing areas are wet spots in this video...surface was completely repaved within the last five or six years according to some of the VFD guys and has seen very little traffic since. Maybe Chad was going for the hand held effect to add artistic interest

Based on the video that Gordon Wise so kindly shipped us, I think Polish Mountain is a bit steeper than Giants and a bit more open than Weatherly. I'll try and remember to glean some of those comparisons out of the experienced guys attending the Spring site visit.

Here's a link to a PDF file with "working" turn names and numbers. Kinda fun to see the vid and then refer to the course map to ID the key features and elements...names seem to fit at a glance....especially Breakneck and Big Ben, IMO

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/GilpinTurnNamesV3.pdf

Dave

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:28 am

Cumberland Racer wrote: Kinda fun to see the vid and then refer to the course map to ID the key features and elements...

Which is exactly why the site I am working on plays the video right next to an ariel photo of the course

... now if I could only get a little red dot to go along the course as the video plays

Cumberland Racer · Post by **Cumberland Racer** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:19 am

Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk.

Making the dot move is a bit like the way we ended up describing an idea for ad campaign at my shop the other day..."It's like Endless Summer, but it's not about summer and it ends." Details, details.

redline designs · Post by **redline designs** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:35 am

yeah fellas, it def wasnt a mounted camera...just the girlfriend holding the camera

.was gonna take my car, but glad we took hers w/ stock suspension....you guys would have been really worried about the bumps w/ my cars stiffness

. its really not that bumpy at all, just bad camera work. it was just a quick job to give you guys an idea and a general look at the hill. as far as patches go on the hill, there are none. it is perfect pavement the whole way up. the road is just covered 2 inches of lovely western md salt.

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:51 pm

I'm relieved to hear that the road surface is in fact okay. Looks to be a nice climb. Count me in.

KURT

Ray Colbert · Post by **Ray Colbert** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:28 pm

All,

The start line will be at or near the big Juniper tree you see at the start of the video. I believe we set the finish to be well before the road that comes in on the right at the end of the video. It will likely be at the clear area on the right just before the crest.

PA Hillclimb

Flintstone Update

flintstone video

flintstone video

FLINTStone video