Sent home early from Jefferson...

Mwilson · Post by **Mwilson** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:24 am

I think we are forgeting one thing about adding an extra day at Jefferson, What about the workers? When we run, it is "Recreation" to us. To the workers is is simply "Work." They are the ones that have to stand at the corners all day, or stand at the start line or sit and time the event. They would be giving up their whole labor day vacation (3 days)just so we could play and have some fun. We better start taking our workers into consideration or sooner or later they will become a "Thing of the past." I have worked a few events and understand what a long day it can be standing on a hill in the hot sun or cold rain. Then when the cars are sent back down the hill, many of the drivers don't even acknowledge the corner workers with a simple wave. The sooner we realize that the workers are the most important people at the event not the drivers, and the sooner we come up with some program to compensate their efforts, the better off we will be. So at the next event, take the time to thank those people that help make your weekend an enjoyable time. And when you come back down the hill, honk the horn, or wave your hand to acknowledge their efforts. TO ALL OF YOU I SAY THANKS FOR A JOB WELL DONE.

RX-Midget · Post by **RX-Midget** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:49 am

3 days would be nice, but I do like to spend that 3rd day with family that is not at the track. I'm sure the workers are very tired and ready to rest also. I think we can get it done in 2 days if we figure out what the major delays are.

I was not paying attention (I'm in Group 2) as to when the show got started Sunday after the drivers meeting. Was it on time?
I seem to remember our track being silent while you could set your watch to the start of the first race on the Main Course.

I typically hear that one problem is finding enough workers to get the runs started. Is this true?

If it is, I'd like to discuss what another Time Trial group does.
If you want to compete in championship points, then you have to work at one event. Work a corner, setup/teardown, whatever, just put your time in to allow everyone to have some fun.

On the flip side, I also heard a few workers who said they will never work again due to some of the abuse they recieved. They commented that they would even come out to the events to watch/hang out, but they would not go back and work again. That's not good!

Beside the track cleanup, what else was a major delay? Start on time, Lunch, Catch-ups.....?

If we identify the delays then we have a chance to fix/modify them.

Tim Royer · Post by **Tim Royer** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:12 pm

HI,

Adding a third day was talked about in the past. Of course it would be about a $220 3 day weekend and many variables would have to come together. One big thing would be officials willing to work and corner workers. Another would be numbers will be down because of the higher cost per driver. You could make the 3rd day a separate event, but I feel that there wouldn't be enough drivers to make it workout money wise. As a separate event to work then the cost would be around 50 drivers at near $100 per driver. Of course this would be a mandatory pre-registered event. Then if there wasn't enough numbers generated the 3rd day could be canceled.

Champ · Post by **Champ** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:43 pm

Here's something to consider. At Blue Ridge, the drivers' meeting was at 7:30. I got 8 runs on Sunday and missed two opportunities.

Also, it's been mentioned on the side that the red flag procedure is always the same. Do we have to go over it at each event? I think the meetings could be started earlier and end a little quicker. It wouldn't have taken much to give us enough time for a third run on Sunday.

jmullins · Post by **jmullins** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 pm

For what it is worth, I checked our stats from Spring.

Spring we ran 13 total laps.

For Fall we both had 18 laps. 6 runs each.

I maybe getting old, but I am pretty sure we both had 3 runs each on Sunday. I was itching for a 4th but I also understand we kept people late Saturday (5:30?) so I can understand the decision. I had a great time and I thank everyone for the hard work they put in.

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:44 pm

We had two sessions on Sunday. 6 Laps

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

Matt Green · Post by **Matt Green** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:23 pm

I do want to comment on a few things here.

#1- While I do NOT agree with the decision that was made, I do respect the rights and responsibilities of the Officials to make the decision. The idea of having a drivers meeting at that point is really irrelevant. The choice was made, and we need to deal with it and move on. I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you want to be part of the decision making process, you need to came work and get trained as the officials who take part in that process. There is much more to it than it first would seem...

#2- The reason why we go over things at drivers meetings is typically because they were an issue recently. Even after the discussion of flags, we still had someone run SEVERAL flags. It all comes down to relevant information. There are some things we always need to remind about, and it takes literally 2-3 minutes if that. Just FYI- I personally was responsible for the longest drivers meeting I know of this season at Rose Valley (and thanks for your patience). I can tell you that the meeting had NO effect on our starting time.

#3- I can also tell you that I was on the hill at Pagoda and Duryea at 6am, along with the real hardcore group of people who make those two events happen. So as it is, there's very little time to spare, given the amount of setup versus the number of people. I'm honestly not sure if an earlier start time is really even a possibility. That being said, I'm certainly not averse to trying to make things happen quicker, but it's going to take a lot more help. We do appreciate those who helped at the hill setup sessions and also at teardown, but who will take the time away from getting cars unloaded and pit spaces set up to come help put out flags, extinguishers, hay bales, radio boxes, etc?

These are just the few points I have time to make.

Again, I'm not saying I like the outcome of Jefferson. Hell, that last set of runs probably meant as much or more to me than to anyone else there.

I also want to make it clear that this post is more of a general response to several emails and phone calls I've gotten, along with the criticisms made here, versus responding to good alternate ideas that were presented elsewhere in the thread. I think we do need to investigate some alternatives if we are going to continue to grow, but we also need to keep in mind how much infrastructure we have to work with, so that we don't stretch ourselves way farther than our organization (especially those who are there working most events) can handle.

Just my thoughts, and I'm sure others share them too.

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:27 am

Start time at Jefferson can not be earlier then 9AM.
From the track rental agreement:
"Vehicles may be on the course from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on the rental date(s).

Dogpatch · Post by **Dogpatch** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:28 pm

Matt

I don't believe a drivers meeting would have been irrevalent. While it may not have provided a useful solution it would have given all the drivers a chance to know that a decision of this magnatude was being made and what that decision was and more important... why. As it was the drivers were left in the dark.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

Mel Horn · Post by **Mel Horn** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:26 pm

I seem to remember a similar situation at Giants' one year...

Someone leaked oil from the start line (or so it seemed) up to and through the Elbow.
We had drivers ( myself included)scrubbing the oildry with brooms in full Nomex.

The oil had to be cleaned up, or no one could race (safety).
The oil couldn't be cleaned up in time, however, to allow a full set of runs and make whatever time we had to be off the hill(fairness and good-neighborly-ness). And this was on Sunday.

///Mracer · Post by **///Mracer** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:02 am

I started my racing career in auto-xing and have competed at a bunch of National Tour events. The big difference between solo I and II (I know, old terms) is that in solo II the drivers HAVE TO WORK in order to compete. Maybe we should take a look at requiring drivers to work a run group per weekend. I am not sure if this would speed things up, but if finding non-driving workers becomes a problem, this might help.

Maybe use some drivers as "stand by" clean up crew at several different sections of the course in case of an oil spill since this dramatically slows the day down.

Just some thoughts.....

Matt Green · Post by **Matt Green** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:52 pm

Dogpatch wrote:Matt

I don't believe a drivers meeting would have been irrevalent. While it may not have provided a useful solution it would have given all the drivers a chance to know that a decision of this magnatude was being made and what that decision was and more important... why. As it was the drivers were left in the dark.

Kurt
Prince PR01 DSR #08

See my post in your other thread.

Mazdahead · Post by **Mazdahead** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:43 pm

I was thinking about the workers situation and would like to ask a few questions and maybe suggest some solutions. Do we get the address/phone number/email address of workers at all the events? If we do, an incentive might be to supply transport and accomodations by PHA members to some of the more remote facilities? I would be willing to take a worker and put them up for the weekend. How about giving a worker a ride with Jack Reifsnyder? lol I think this could actually be an advertised contest or reward for a worker to take a ride up the hill? And just threw Jacks name in there because of the Giants ride for the reporter! I would be willing to do this if it helps get corner workers? I know it needs approval and blessing from the staff. Draw a name of a registered worker at each event and have them enjoy the real reason why they are there. I am sure that other incentives for workers could be made?

TAMNOZ · Post by **TAMNOZ** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:55 pm

I'm a little late to this topic after reading all the posts I think maybe some of you guys should buy PS3 and play in your living rooms. I have raced solo and roadraces between them for 25 years and always in open cars.I can show in car videos from events where the car was never pointed straight but I never missed a run and they were always competititve times for the weather conditions.And by the way drive an ASR on slicks as I have.I'm tired of people beating a dead horse, unfortunately sometimes you just ran out of time and by the way if I hadn't decided to give up my free time on the main course to come over and Safety Steward for you guys, you might not even got the runs in that you did. So stop complaining and your welcome.
Jim Oswald

TAMNOZ · Post by **TAMNOZ** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:16 pm

It's been a while since I ran Jefferson so if I'm wrong please tell me so.You get three timed laps each time you go out and they are timed individually correct. That equals 6timed laps in one day so whats the complaint? I remember Giant's one year where they got two runs for the whole weekend.
Jim Oswald

PA Hillclimb