Noob Questions

G.T. · Post by **G.T.** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:04 pm

I’m interested in running some events in ’07 and had some questions. The car is currently prepared for autocross and I intend to run BSP or SM for the hillclimbs as well. With that in mind, I wanted to prepare for the upcoming season and wanted some information on the following:

- Are arm restraints required for production-based cars running Solo II classes, even non-convertibles?
- How old must FIA-approved seats & harnesses be before they’re ineligible for hillclimb purposes?
- I’ve read that one apply for a license at the event. If so, will this license be good just for that event, or will it be valid for the season?
- If the one-time license won’t be valid for future events, can one keep applying for a (temporary) license on an even-by-event basis?

I’d appreciate any information regarding these concerns. Thanks in advance!

Champ · Post by **Champ** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:30 pm

Go to http://www.scca.com and click on the link for Club Racing on the left side of the home page. Then click on "Cars and Rules". Next to "Documents & Books" you will see a link to downloadable time trial rules. You'll find the answers to all of your questions there.

G.T. · Post by **G.T.** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:15 pm

Champ wrote:Go to http://www.scca.com and click on the link for Club Racing on the left side of the home page. Then click on "Cars and Rules". Next to "Documents & Books" you will see a link to downloadable time trial rules. You'll find the answers to all of your questions there.

Found it...thanks!

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:54 pm

- Are arm restraints required for production-based cars running Solo II classes, even non-convertibles?

Arm restraints are required for all open top cars. All other cars must use either a driver's side window net or arm restraints.

- How old must FIA-approved seats & harnesses be before they’re ineligible for hillclimb purposes?

There is currently no age limit on harnesses or seats at this time.
From the TT rules:

For Level 3 Events (Track Trials) and Level 4 Events
(Hill Climbs) - Drivers must adhere to section 17.23 as
written in the TTR in its entirety, except for the harness
age limit.

- I’ve read that one apply for a license at the event. If so, will this license be good just for that event, or will it be valid for the season?
- If the one-time license won’t be valid for future events, can one keep applying for a (temporary) license on an even-by-event basis?

You can apply for a TT license and SCCA membership at the events but it is better to get them in advance.
You can get the TT license form at:
http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/t ... icense.pdf
The medical form:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/f ... alexam.pdf
SCCA membership form:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/sccamemberapp.pdf
Licenses and membership is valid for one year (licenses expire at the same time as membership). After three (3) successful events you can be signed off of the novice license by the Divisional Time Trial admiistrator.

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:28 pm

Harnesses are 5 years for level 3/4 Time Trials, does not matter if, they are FIA or SFI belts. There is no age requirement s on window nets, arm restraints, or seats. IF you use a FIA seat, it must be one that meets the current GCR specifications in Section 18 under seats.

Rich

Dave Cutchins · Post by **Dave Cutchins** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:02 pm

- How old must FIA-approved seats & harnesses be before they’re ineligible for hillclimb purposes?

There is currently no age limit on harnesses or seats at this time.
From the TT rules:

For Level 3 Events (Track Trials) and Level 4 Events
(Hill Climbs) - Drivers must adhere to section 17.23 as
written in the TTR in its entirety, except for the harness
age limit.

Nelson,

Help me understand "no age limit on harnesses or seat belts at this time".

Every time trial or hillclimb I have attended, the car is looked at throughly and the inspector always checks for the date on my harness.

I know what 17.23 says , but it also refers to section 20 (applicable sections as revised for the TTR).

Paragraph 8, 8.A & 8.B specifically state that the certification for belts and harnesses expires after 5 years.

It seems as if a slick lawyer or drunk politician wrote this portion of the rules.

My harness expires at 12/31/06. Do I need to add belts to my list before I send it to the north Pole?

Dave Cutchins FF #94

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:54 pm

Exactly as it is wriiten. There is no age limit on harnesses for TT. The TT rules are used in the following manner: They may refer to sections in the GCR but may be modified by what is wriiten in the TT rules.

Matt Green can clarify this, but I think this particular item was put in so that the belts for TT would not have to be changed every five years, as long as they are in good shape and do not show excessive wear.

No you do not have to change your belts as long as they are in good shape.

Post by **Matt Rowe** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:18 pm

Nelson is correct in what is currently wirtten in the TTR about harness age limits. But only because someone screwed up the editing when the rules were reorganized for improved readability last winter. If you look at the 2005 TTR it states:

For Level 3 (Track Trials) and Level 4 (Hill Climbs) events-drivers must adhere to section 17.23 as written in the Club Racing GCR in its entirety, except for the harness age limit.

All cars at all levels of Time Trials Events that use Section 20 for Driver Restraint systems are hereby allowed to use harnesses up to five (5) years in age, so long as the belts show no signs of fraying or excessive wear, are not discolored, and all mechanical parts function properly.

As a member of the TTAC I will be sure to get this rule corrected as this is NOT the way the rule should read.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:36 pm

Can you believe NHRA has us change belts every 2 years

Post by **Matt Rowe** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:23 pm

How long has that rule been in place?

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:29 pm

At least as long as I have been doing the national events (2003).
I'm not sure how long prior to that it was established.

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:46 am

Hello Glenn and welcome!!! What kind of car will you be racing?

G.T. · Post by **G.T.** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:25 pm

Thanks to all for the info (and the welcome, Steve!). I’m looking forward to my first hillclimb and while it’s still early, I’d like to make sure I have the car (E36 M3) sorted well before the first event of ’07.

dspgti · Post by **dspgti** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:30 am

I would like to clarrify one thing. In Glenn's first posting he asked about FIA Harnesses as well as seats. FIA harnesses do not have the two year limit in club racing as SFI has according to section 20 in the GCR. They are dated for expiration.

I have a set of FIA belts that has an expiration date of 2011. I didn't buy them new but they could have been made in 2006. I am assuming that FIA goes by a 5 year rule so they would fall under the TTR rules of 5 years as well, correct? That would be irregardless of TT going back to GCR specs of 2 years for SFI rating, correct? Why do I ask such a question? They are a better belt, has 6 or 7 point mount cost 2 times as much but worth the money if they last 2 1/2 times longer.

One more note to Glenn. There was another thread where we covered mounting an FIA seat and not using the seat back brace. No tech inspector can produce the specs for mounting an FIA seat so they will still require the seat back brace. It's a "Catch 22" kind of thing.

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:57 pm

FIA seats must be FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher do not require seat braces. Homologation labels must be present. Seats supports shall be of the type listed on FIA techical list No. 12 ( laterial, bottom, etc.).

Rich

dspgti · Post by **dspgti** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:19 pm

So Rich, do you mean to tell me you have the specs for FIA seat mounting?

They are readable and understandable in laymen terms?

I sure would like to have a copy of that. Please don't tell me to go to the FIA site. I went thru that torture already trying to find it

Dave Y.

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:41 am

Dave,

No, I do not have a copy of the FIA specs and yes, the FIA website is a pain in the a$$. SCCA has never made it clear on mounting FIA seats. I do see that Race Central has the mounting plates and I suspect that Susquehanna Motorsports does too. Basically, it is a L shaped bracket that bolts to the side of the seat and then, to the floor or a dbl locking base slider for adjustable seat positions.
As a tech inspector, I would really hate to see anyone drilling into a FIA seat just for the simple fact that these seat are mostly made from composites and any holes weaken them.

Rich

TIP Jrud · Post by **TIP Jrud** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:19 pm

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... n_seat.pdf

That's the rules for the seat stuff. The last time I downloaded it, they cut off part of the english column, but if you can interpolate from the english and french you'll be fine. I was able to figure out what I was looking for and I don't know french at all.

Tim

dspgti · Post by **dspgti** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:28 pm

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

PA Hillclimb

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