Track events for 2006

jimmyp · Post by **jimmyp** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:33 pm

Hi All,,,
Anyone think there will be any additional "track" events this year (like the Tri-Region thing last year) or any additional track based time trials?

Thanks in advnace,,, see you in the spring.
Cheers
jimmy p.

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:41 am

There was a rumor going around that DC Region was looking into a Time Trial on the big track at Summit Point but I do not see it on any schedule for this year.

jimmyp · Post by **jimmyp** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:26 pm

Kind of figured.
Thanks
I guess its EMRA / MCLUB / COM / CART again this year (which is not a bad thing)
The promise shown by the new "Time Trials" program seems to have totally deflated.
Just dissapointing to me that no new track events have come of the "new program".

The cone punters got rid of us,,, dumped us onto CR.
CR doesn't really seem to want to do anything with us, they dont want to have us in their events.
Solo 1 / Time Trialing in the SCCA version it seems will be left to die or just continue on hills business as usual.

Sorry for the rant / ramble.
Please do post if DC region does decide to do any TTs.
Thanks
jimmy

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:32 pm

Jimmy,

I know that Tri-Region is planning a level 1/PDX event at Pocono on June 16-17.

Rich

Post by **Matt Rowe** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:50 pm

Jimmy,

As Rich mentioned Tri-region is planning on running another event at poconon this year and I believe they are considering up to three events. I haven't heard anything about DC regions plans but between the National convention next weekend and the regional convention in a couple of weeks the schedule will be a lot clearer shortly.

As for your comments about CR attitude, it really has nothing to do with club racing. The individual regions are the ones that decide if they have the interest and desire to put on an event. Club racing only consolidated the programs and allowed us to put together a rules package that made sense. And in fact the Time Trials program has shown phenomenal growth. In 2004 year there were 32 events that would have been time trials event.s In 2005 there 70 events! That's more than double! It just happens that the PDX and Track trials events have caugh on faster in other areas of the country for a number of reasons.

One of the biggest things that anyone can do if they think more events should be done is to work with their region. In general, the people in charge of planning events already have their hands full and could use extra help to plan something new.

JekylandHyde · Post by **JekylandHyde** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:06 am

Anyone else mildy annoyed at the influx of "Time Attack" events?
It seems like every import magazine is mkaing it sound like the newest thing on the planet, when many different organizations have been running time trial-type events in this country for an extremely longtime.
It's just a new name and suddenly it gets attention

I see on a lot of message boards about the other latest racing fad from Japan ... "Touge" (i.e.e mountain/ridge racing) ... never heard of that being done in this country?!

Call it something new and the kiddies go crazy over it.
I just find it amazing how new packaging has the ability to change people's perspectives.

If I am wrong that:
Time Attack = Time Trials
Touge = Hillclimbs
... please educate me as I would sincerely appreciate being less
annoyed about the sudden popularity of the 'names' of these events.

... sorry to go off topic.

I am planning on doing two EMRA events at Pocono.

Steve Tumolo · Post by **Steve Tumolo** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:37 am

June 17 & 18 is a Road Race at Pocono too. Does anyone know how Tri-Region is putting on both events at the same time? Just curious.

jimmyp · Post by **jimmyp** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:30 pm

Thanks Matt,
That is WAY more promising than what it looked like on the surface by reading schedules and websites.
I didnt mean to sound negative, it just looked like even the one non-comp event we did have, went away.
If there are more on the table, I gladly retract / edit / delete my post.

Steve,,,
I dont know what they are planning, but after running over 100 track days at Pocono... I'll say IMHO if they are SMART,,, and want to utilise Pocono to its full financial and event potential they would run CR on the North Course, Time Trials on the East course and a PDE on the South course. ALL three events could be run simultaneously, no one would get stiffed for time, they could amortise the costs across a larger number of entrants, getting entry fees down. Probably not even need much more flaggers than they would need if they were running the long course to run all three independantly. The most difficult part of the whole thing in my eyes would be getting instructors for the PDE,,, but I think there is a good enough instructor base in the Northeast of instructors that are NOT racers or Time Trialers. We would have to mine the marque clubs, places like PDA, BMWCCA, PCA, but those clubs have good lists of instructors.

Pocono can EASILY accomodate all three groups at the same time.
Hell,,, it happens every single weekend up there from April to November.
PDA and the Northeast Corvette club has had events similar to this there many times before.

Also I actually finally read my Sportscar today and saw two Time Trial dates from DC region on the schedule for Summit Point.
Things are looking up for Time Trialing with SCCA.

Cheers
jimmy

Rich Sweigart · Post by **Rich Sweigart** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:43 pm

Steve,

The only regional road racing event at Pocono is the NNJR May event, Tri-Region is staying with the PDX on the big course in June with the Dbl. National in August.

Rich

Matt Green · Post by **Matt Green** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:48 am

jimmyp wrote:I dont know what they are planning, but after running over 100 track days at Pocono... I'll say IMHO if they are SMART,,, and want to utilise Pocono to its full financial and event potential they would run CR on the North Course, Time Trials on the East course and a PDE on the South course. ALL three events could be run simultaneously, no one would get stiffed for time, they could amortise the costs across a larger number of entrants, getting entry fees down. Probably not even need much more flaggers than they would need if they were running the long course to run all three independantly. The most difficult part of the whole thing in my eyes would be getting instructors for the PDE,,, but I think there is a good enough instructor base in the Northeast of instructors that are NOT racers or Time Trialers. We would have to mine the marque clubs, places like PDA, BMWCCA, PCA, but those clubs have good lists of instructors.

Pocono can EASILY accomodate all three groups at the same time.
Hell,,, it happens every single weekend up there from April to November.
PDA and the Northeast Corvette club has had events similar to this there many times before.

Jimmy-

Part of the issue with any flat-track Time Trials event at Pocono is getting any kind of attendance and enough officials... Yes, we do have enough, but we run Hillclimbs every other weekend during most of the summer, so it can get a little hectic. Also, one of the big draws at Pocono is running the "big" course, so I think if we ran multiple courses, we would lose entries.

Now all that being said- I 100% agree that we need to run multiple simultaneous events at Pocono from an economics standpoint. There is simply no way to have financial success otherwise, IMHO.

I was going to respond to your other post, but Matt R beat me to it. The number of TT events is simply a function of getting a Region to put one on, having a place to run one, and getting entrants. Problem is, most local regions are overworked with Solo and Club Racing schedules already, so we need to get more event organizers and officials to make things work. If there is a group that wants it to happen, tell them to contact me or Matt Rowe for help with logistics, and we can put them in touch with the right people in that region.

As always, we need help on the organizational and official side before we can put on something new that competitors will be pleased with.

///Mracer · Post by **///Mracer** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:32 pm

I also noticed that DC has summit main listed for a TT in Sportscar but there is nothing on their website about it

CART TT on Pocono North is usually fun and fairly cheap. I wish we could combine all the organization groups into a TT/ hill climb points series (PHA, CART, EMRA, other SCCA regions etc..), no that would be fun

I am headed to VIR (NASA) in FEB. to get my fix of track before the Jefferson TT in May

jimmyp · Post by **jimmyp** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:59 pm

Matt Green wrote:Also, one of the big draws at Pocono is running the "big" course, so I think if we ran multiple courses, we would lose entries.

See Matt, I think this line of thinking is being way overated (my opinion here).
Pocono is filled (most other club's are events sold out) all season on the smaller tracks.
I dont see any attraction to the big track at all personally, in fact I was considering not even doing the Tri-Region one we had last year "because" of it being on the big track (especially the configuration of the big track that got used),,, but I wanted to support the fact that we were "having" one.

I think if you look at all the other clubs who run on the smaller tracks, you would see that there is no percieved aversion to them, in fact, they do pretty well.
If you dont have a GT1 car, a GT2, T1, T2 its a yawner. Short turny bits interspersed by looooong stretches of keep it floored and aimed straight.

IMO its also a HORRIBLE teaching track. You have to wait so long to get another look at a corner, or particular braking zone you are working on with a student. I cant remember what a typical student lap time was there but it doesn't amount to many "looks" at anything in a 25 minute session. Where on say the East Course or North Course at around 1:00 laps, you get ALOT more looks per session at the corners.

At the very least least running double infields (WITH the south hairpin, NOT the yump) makes a little more like a road course. Its a little more interesting. Long course using the NASCAR T1,,, way overrated.

I'm guessing you guys were hoping on getting racers into the event, luring them with the SCCA race circuit, but are we trying to build a TT program here, or give extra practice days in a PDE format for racers?

Not jumping on you,,, I appreciate your response and your time.
Its a program I care about and I really hope it takes off in the Northeast.
I know "most" guys I TT with in other clubs find the long course at Pocono insanely boring and will not sign up for events that use it, again with the possible exception of double infields.

Cheers
jimmy

Matt Green · Post by **Matt Green** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm

jimmyp wrote: I dont see any attraction to the big track at all personally, in fact I was considering not even doing the Tri-Region one we had last year "because" of it being on the big track (especially the configuration of the big track that got used),,, but I wanted to support the fact that we were "having" one.

IMO its also a HORRIBLE teaching track. You have to wait so long to get another look at a corner, or particular braking zone you are working on with a student. I cant remember what a typical student lap time was there but it doesn't amount to many "looks" at anything in a 25 minute session. Where on say the East Course or North Course at around 1:00 laps, you get ALOT more looks per session at the corners.

At the very least least running double infields (WITH the south hairpin, NOT the yump) makes a little more like a road course. Its a little more interesting. Long course using the NASCAR T1,,, way overrated.

Wow, I wish you could've been a fly on the wall at the Tri Region meeting last year where we discussed this. You made all the arguements I did. I can't tell you how much I agree with everything you just said...

I also think that running that configuration tends to attract the people that we may NOT want to have (speed racer type), versus those who are looking for a real chance to get better...

I've instructed a few times on the North Course and I LOVE it from an instructional standpoint. Nice combo of speed and corner setup, with a chance to breathe, but not yawn...

So, you don't have to convince me, because I'm right there with you. Unfortunately last year I was more of a guest at that point, and I got outvoted... I'm hoping we don't make the same mistake again.