Seats

[gdh57]

I'm planning to put a racing seat in the Scirocco for next year -- yes, I know the stock seats with the base padding cut out are so very classy , but they weigh 36 lbs each, and it's time to go lighter (not to mention going for a seat with more support)...

I'm thinking about the Kirkey Intermediate Road Race seat. Does anyone have any opinions on this seat or a recommendation for a different one? The car will be used for hill climbs and autocross, and I currently have no plans to road race it.

I'm short, at least compared to the average driver that most seats seem to be designed for. This means that I have to be careful about how high the side supports are so that they clear my armpits (18" max, 17" would be better). But the seat also has to accomodate Keith, who is tall. Width -- well we don't need to get into that, but we can both fit into the same width seat.

Also, is there any place in the local NJ / PA area that sells seats? I wouldn't mind sitting in one first. We did try the Valley Forge motorsports show last January, but only found one to try (show seems to be more trinkets these days than anything else).

Thanks!

Grace

[Sue Salsburg]

Grace - the nice thing about the Kirkey seats is you get to talk with a real live person. I even dealt with Mr. Kirkey. They built my seat to my specs - short & FAT. They'll put the sides where you want & even the sub belt hole(s). I went to a speed shop & they measured all the heights, widths(sitting is different than standing), length to back of knees etc. . Very pleased, no back aches & it held up perfectly in 2 crashes. More than a stock seat but worth it for the MGA. Of course we have to pad my skinny husband! Try sitting in other racers' seat & see how you feel. You're always welcome here. Sue

[Matt Rowe]

I've been very happy with my Kirkey Intermediate RR seat. I didn't worry to much about customization, just measured my butt and placed the order. I did try out one beforehand though and knew what I was getting into. The best bet might be to call Kirkey and ask them if they have a distributor local to you. The only place I would think to try offhand is OG Racing but they are a few hours south. I'd offer my car for a test fit but with my location and schedule I'm not sure that's any better.

While I would defintely recommend the Kirkey, keep in mind that they should be braced from the back as well. Seats that are FIA certified do not require this and might be a good choice depending on the car. For example if keeping the backseat accessible is important. Of course I don't trust only mounting to a stock floor pan (right Steve T?) so I would likely brace the seatback anyway. Just some food for thought.

[Sue Salsburg]

As Matt said, the mounting can be tricky, especially in a larger sedan. The MGA made all it's own decisions given the small cockpit. The seat back is tight against the roll cage, wedged between the frame rails & then bolted to 1/4 inch diamond plate welded to the frame. Also the padding seems to have held up very well, considering the times the car has sat out in the rain.

[Steve Tumolo]

Grace,

Fellow racer Dave Miller has his own business selling all kinds of saftey equipment and doing fab. work. I am going to order a seat from him in a few months as well. His website is http://www.creativeracingtechnologies.com/index.html tell him I sent ya.

ps: what did my seat in was the cheapo $20 universal seat mounting brackets. You are far better off making something on your own.

[JekylandHyde]

Hey Grace,

I have the Sparco Sprints and I bought them from OGRacing.com
They are relatively cheap and are FIA approved so you will not need to install a seat-back brace.

I think they were about $200 each. They are for "medium" build and suit me just fine 6' 0" @ 165-175 lbs. They had brackets & sliders specifically for the MR2 which I think ran $50 each piece per side.

I think it came out to $400 for 2 seats, $100 for both brackets and $100 for both sliders. I bought stuff at different times and I bought at least one slider used so I got away a bit cheaper than that.

Good luck with whatever you go with.

[gdh57]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Especially the obvious one I called Kirkey, and found a couple of local dealers with stock (not just Kirkey seats, but Sparco, so I can try a couple different ones out). The closest one to me is in Trenton, and I plan to run up on Saturday to see how the seats fit.

The seat is going to have to go on a track, since there's no way Keith and I can drive with the seat in the same position.

What actually brought all of this up is that I am currently having CSE (in Oreland) fabricate a new cage, and it is at the point where we need to do something about the seat. They are going to reinforce the floor pan and put in a back brace (which adjusts).

Grace

[Sue Salsburg]

Ah Grace! You mean when you picked Keith you didn't measure his leg length? I shopped far & wide to find David - he has exactly the same length to the pedals, factoring in the thickness of my butt. True love for two racers - we can bolt down the seat! Have fun shopping. Sue

[gdh57]

When I picked Keith, I did not even own my first Scirocco, although I had discovered them (my roommate had a first gen, although she later totalled it). And at that time, leg length never occurred to me

Oh well, he does have other good attributes. Including teaching me how to drive a manual transmission in his brand new (at the time) CRX so I could buy that first Scirocco

Grace

[Sue Salsburg]

Grace - one more thought on 2 driver seat problems. Have you considered having a proper insert made? Like the LeMans guys have for driver changes? Would seem easier than a movable back brace to the seat. Sue

[gdh57]

Grace - one more thought on 2 driver seat problems. Have you considered having a proper insert made? Like the LeMans guys have for driver changes? Would seem easier than a movable back brace to the seat. Sue

I actually hadn't even thought of an insert. I've seen one used on a kid's kart at a local autocross -- the sister was twice as tall as her brother, so he needed the insert.

The sliding back brace shouldn't be that difficult to deal with, especially once we both figure out which position we want the seat in -- it will be a matter of setting a pin in the correct hole (although impossible to do while sitting in the seat). Likely I'm going to have to be the one to remember to move the seat for both of us though -- Keith doesn't remember to change the numbers most of the time, although he was getting better at Weatherly

When I go up to the shop Saturday, I'll also ask about inserts. The shop looks like it does a lot of fabrication in addition to selling equipment.

Grace

[dspgti]

Just a general word of advise to all on seats. SCCA allows an FIA approved seat without back bracing as long as the mounts meet FIA specs. I have gone nuts trying to locate the specs that FIA requires. It's like a secret that no one can understand. I just know that the tech guys look at standard seat brackets and claim it's not "FIA"approved.

[Matt Green]

Just a general word of advise to all on seats. SCCA allows an FIA approved seat without back bracing as long as the mounts meet FIA specs. I have gone nuts trying to locate the specs that FIA requires. It's like a secret that no one can understand. I just know that the tech guys look at standard seat brackets and claim it's not "FIA"approved.

See, here's the deal. There are actually two issues. First, there is the seat itself. If it carries an FIA cert (which will come with the seat or is available from the manufacturer), then it is technically legal to run w/o a brace.
The bigger problem is the mounting itself. It is not about the "mounts", but rather how the seat is actually installed. In order for that part to be FIA legal, the setup must be homologated by FIA. Even if the specs were available, none of us possess the proper credentials to do that (nor do we possess the facilities and tools to do the testing required).

In order to meet the requirements for no brace, the seat must meet the specs and carry a certification, which ust be shown at annual tech. The problem I have is when someone takes a great seat (FIA cert) and drills a couple of holes in it and mounts it to the floor with a few spacers and some 5/16 carriage bolts from Home Depot. At least the seat will have a better chance of survival if it's mounted sturdily at both ends in two planes...

And if you think it wouldn't happen, I'll tell you a few more stories from the Tech discussion at the Roundtable last spring... Aluminum seat mounting hardware, belts bolted to the *seat*, window nets mounted with coat hangers, etc.

Oh, and if you really want a discussion, talk to Cosner... He had an early retirement from racing because of a back injury (with, I believe, a seat failure involved). What's worth more, a $50 brace and an hour mounting time, or your mobility (or possibly your life)?

And if you think FIA info is hard to find, try NASCAR...

[Matt Green]

Grace - one more thought on 2 driver seat problems. Have you considered having a proper insert made? Like the LeMans guys have for driver changes? Would seem easier than a movable back brace to the seat. Sue

That's a cool idea. They do make those bead-filled bags that you put in place and then bind it all together to make a solid.

Just don't use anything that is "cushiony". I'm told that it was pillows used as seat fillers that led to a girl with a broken pelvis at an NHIS Solo I about 8-10 years back.

Oh wait, can I call the old events Solo I, or do we have to use the new Time Trials title on all old events now too? I never knew that Richard Petty won the NEXTEL Cup...

Sorry for the multiple NASCAR references... I was bored on Friday night and wound up watching the awards banquet thingie. You can take the boys out of the South, but you can't take the South out of the boys. I think each attendee got a goodie bag with 3 packs of chaw, a NASCAR belt buckle, a can of spray deodorant (ya know, fer lightin the grill from 3 feet away), and a $25 gift certificate to Piggly Wiggly (yes, they sell beer there).

[gdh57]

I went to look at seats Saturday, but instead of having the Intermediate Road Race set, they actually had the Intermediate 20 degree Layback seat. It has rib supports much higher than the Road Race seat.

I tried the seat in my size based on what the ruler told me, and it fit as if it were custom made for me. However, I can't picture anyone much larger than myself able to fit between the rib supports, and I don't think there is any way Keith will be able to wedge himself into it. The next size up will not work for me -- I can't get my arms over the rib supports.

Keith is out of town, so I will take him there when he gets back and see if he fits. But if he doesn't, and I'm pretty sure he won't...

Well, I could always tell him to put a cage in my ITR and run that But that would still mean that I'm going to need to pick a shop for the Scirocco based on the size of the mechanic.

So, I am pretty sure that Carl Hindman has the Intermediate Road Race seat in his Scirocco. Keith and I both tried whatever he has last year, and it fits both of us. Does anyone have contact info for Carl and/or know what type of seat he has in his Scirocco (and what size it is)?

Grace

[gdh57]

In case anyone else needs seats...

I ended up getting the 17" Kirkey Intermediate Road Race seat, which is what Carl has. I got it from OG Racing, who has it for the same price as Racer's Wholesale, but also has free shipping:

http://www.ogracing.com/

They have a selection of Kirkey and Sparco seats in stock, and I actually convinced Keith he wanted to ride down there (outside of DC, near Dulles). But after I could not find time for the road trip for a few weeks in a row, I decided to just order it (lack of a seat is holding up the cage fabrication), figuring I'd just use it as a passenger seat if it turned out to be too large.

It is a little big for me, but definitely usable. Maybe I will have the car back in time for the first winter autox...

Grace

[FV195]

Grace, you should go to the motorsports shoe in fort washington this weekend,I was there today, lots of seats on display to try on. It's closer than DC plus lots of cool stuff to look at.
THOR

[gdh57]

We went to that show last year, and it was mostly trinkets (hats, memorabilia, etc.), so we decided to skip it this year, especially since I already received the new seat. Sounds like it improved this year...

Grace