Charlie and Bill Rutan

[Ray Colbert]

I saw an episode of Chasing Classic Cars today about the "Bathtub" of Charlie and Bill. It was
Being sold at auction. Bill was featured on the show but Charlie was not mentioned. I thought I remember Chrlie driving the car in PA in 2007 to 2009. Can anybody confirm or deny my recollections?

I also think there is another episode that I could not find that will show the auction and runs at the Hershey HC last year. The car looked different as the canvas engine cover was gone and it had silver aluminum side panels. Can anyone put more accurate history out there?

Ray Colbert
Plum PA

[sdwarf36]

Well-the episode is fairly old. But heres the story.
First off, Charlie died about 8 years ago. And the story of the Tub + Bill is a kinda tangled one. The person Bill sold the car to (who haunted him for years to do so) was sold the car with the expressed agreement that the car:
Wouldn't get parted out.
Wouldn't get over restored.
And Bill would get to drive it at the 2011 Mt. Washington + Mt Equinox.
Well the car was there at Mt. Wash-shined up so much you couldn't reconize it-and so was Bill-but he wasn't driving. He was MFing the new owner up a big storm though.
The show had Carini claiming to own the car? (unsure if thats the case-but I've never met someone who buys+ sell cars on cosignment that DOESN"T claim whatever they are dealing with isn't THEIR car) trying to sell the car at a west coast auction. It would be a sure bet that the very rare + expensive twin cam motor in the car would end up in someone's Speedster-and the rest of the car would probably be scrapped. It has no marketable history outside of a small group of folks who know what hillclimbing is.
Last I heard anything was Wayne Carini was advertised to be running the car at the 2014 Mt. Washington hillclimb. Well it wasn't there. I asked around about it. The story was that the transaxle broke. And when they tried to fix it, no one could figure out that parts that were in there. They had no choice but to call Bill up and ask him if he'd fix it. (Bill is good at holding a grudge) they word I heard was "I'll fix it-but its going to cost you a whole lot of money!"

[Ray Colbert]

Well the car was overrestored!!

If the transaxle is any thing like a VW or an Audi very few can fix them. The unit is split longitudinally so that makes it even worse. When I talked to Charlie, he said it was a 5 speed and that is extremely rare. Not surprised it will cost a lot of money to repair.

Ray Colbert

[crusaderchuck]

Ok since i have known bill since i was a child let me "share". that ZF transaxle in "the thing" was a case with little ZF in it! bill's profession was a machinist. after the restoration of the now called (by carini) "the hillclimb car" which i can whole heartedly say really (EXPLETIVE)....i have seen evrything but what it brought at auction. the car was not restored! it is an abomination of the original car.
now why can wayne not fix that transaxle? bill made his own gears in his own ratios! that comes from my father. now bill did back then and always since , called me "little charlie".
it is funny as this has surfaced so recently. today is one week past my father's 88th birthday and father's day. we had dinner at his home and after dinner he asks"what ever happened to bill rutan?". find my amazement whem mary anne checks the forum and tells me this series of postings. so i can tell you in no way can carini fix that specific transaxle without bill rutan making the replacement gears he had made so long ago. of course an original type VW 4 speed gear box can go into the car with the ring gear flipped to correct rotation in the final drive for a reversed transaxle. but the car will never run like it did and the new owner will never like the car with fragile VW bits in it! the twin cam carerra engine creates too much power for stock pieces out of a VW bug of the era.
and of course in my world bill is best remembered for being one of the co-creators of the saab quantum formula S race cars. which he has his personal chassis still in his posession . it was converted to a formula B car ,wich maens it is heavily modified well past saab powered restoration. but evry time i see bill i have asked if he would sell the chassis.....and he ever so politely (as only bill could) respond (a few expletives left out for the weak at heart) NO! last we spoke he had plans of restoring his class winning formula B car to the way it was way back then....