New to Hillclimbing
Moderators: Rich Rock, Mazdahead, Matt Rowe
- mrevilracing
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
I cannot find any limitations on CID in Street Mod. There are a lot of +/- changes to weight rules due to this mod or that. But we do none of that here in hillclimbs. So, you could show up with a 440 bored out as far as it goes pushing 2000hp and there are no modifiers for time/weight. As long as that block matches the manufacturer of the vehicle, it doesn't matter what you do to it. Here is the rule out of the Solo rules:
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
2. Maximum engine displacements per class are specified in Appendix A.
That rule is take out of 16.1.D on page 108. When you get to Appendix A, on page 186, you get this:
Engine Classifications
1. Four-stroke cycle and two-stroke cycle, naturally aspirated internal combustion engines will be classified on the basis of actual
piston displacement.
2. Turbocharged or supercharged versions of all engines will be classified on a basis of adding 1.4L to the actual displacement.
3. Rotary Engines (Wankel): These units will be classified on the
basis of a piston displacement equivalent to 0.9 liters times the
number of rotors, plus the volume determined by the difference
between the maximum and minimum capacity of the working
chamber times the number of rotors.
4. Electric Motors: Cars with electric motors, in whole or part of the
drivetrain, will run at class maximum weight of 2900 lbs for SSM
class and 3100 lbs for SM class. Category weight adjustments
(e.g., tire size) are allowed.
So if someone can find where it talks about a limitation, point it out. Otherwise, you are welcome to enter Street Mod with that motor and I can guarantee, NO ONE in that class will bitch because it's legal.
For the record, the Mach is officially in SM. Mr Sticker took off the ESP and put on SM. So there ya have it!
Unrelated:
The 275mm width of tire specification in Appendix A is only for a weight reduction credit and has nothing to do with minimums allowed on the vehicle. If you back up to the Street Prepared rules, no limitations are placed on tire width or wheel width are in effect. Here:
15.3 TIRES
Tires must meet the eligibility requirements for Stock Category with the
following exception: the list of non-eligible tires in Section 13.3.A is replaced with the following list, which may be altered at any time by the
SEB upon notification of membership.
No tire models are currently listed.
15.4 WHEELS
Vehicles may only exceed the allowances of 13.4 as specified herein.
A. Wheels of any diameter, width, or offset may be used. Aftermarket
wheels may be modified to install OE tire pressure sensors.
B. Wheel spacers are permitted. Wheel studs and knock-off wheel drive
pegs may be changed in length and diameter. Wheel bolts may be
replaced with studs and nuts.
Street Mod is a crazy, open class for mods. There are limitations but for the most part, ya just glance thru the rules for what you want to do and you're done. The Cuda is listed in ESP, but for any engine mod outside of factory(not including the carb or intake or exhaust), you're in SM. And yes, all you need is a 4pt bar to run SM. All the crazies run there so if you're normal, you won't be for long!!!!
As I like to say, hillclimbing is the only place you can blast up these public roads and NOT get a speeding ticket!
1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer
will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related
only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize
any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an
engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that
particular model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.
2. Maximum engine displacements per class are specified in Appendix A.
That rule is take out of 16.1.D on page 108. When you get to Appendix A, on page 186, you get this:
Engine Classifications
1. Four-stroke cycle and two-stroke cycle, naturally aspirated internal combustion engines will be classified on the basis of actual
piston displacement.
2. Turbocharged or supercharged versions of all engines will be classified on a basis of adding 1.4L to the actual displacement.
3. Rotary Engines (Wankel): These units will be classified on the
basis of a piston displacement equivalent to 0.9 liters times the
number of rotors, plus the volume determined by the difference
between the maximum and minimum capacity of the working
chamber times the number of rotors.
4. Electric Motors: Cars with electric motors, in whole or part of the
drivetrain, will run at class maximum weight of 2900 lbs for SSM
class and 3100 lbs for SM class. Category weight adjustments
(e.g., tire size) are allowed.
So if someone can find where it talks about a limitation, point it out. Otherwise, you are welcome to enter Street Mod with that motor and I can guarantee, NO ONE in that class will bitch because it's legal.
For the record, the Mach is officially in SM. Mr Sticker took off the ESP and put on SM. So there ya have it!
Unrelated:
The 275mm width of tire specification in Appendix A is only for a weight reduction credit and has nothing to do with minimums allowed on the vehicle. If you back up to the Street Prepared rules, no limitations are placed on tire width or wheel width are in effect. Here:
15.3 TIRES
Tires must meet the eligibility requirements for Stock Category with the
following exception: the list of non-eligible tires in Section 13.3.A is replaced with the following list, which may be altered at any time by the
SEB upon notification of membership.
No tire models are currently listed.
15.4 WHEELS
Vehicles may only exceed the allowances of 13.4 as specified herein.
A. Wheels of any diameter, width, or offset may be used. Aftermarket
wheels may be modified to install OE tire pressure sensors.
B. Wheel spacers are permitted. Wheel studs and knock-off wheel drive
pegs may be changed in length and diameter. Wheel bolts may be
replaced with studs and nuts.
Street Mod is a crazy, open class for mods. There are limitations but for the most part, ya just glance thru the rules for what you want to do and you're done. The Cuda is listed in ESP, but for any engine mod outside of factory(not including the carb or intake or exhaust), you're in SM. And yes, all you need is a 4pt bar to run SM. All the crazies run there so if you're normal, you won't be for long!!!!
As I like to say, hillclimbing is the only place you can blast up these public roads and NOT get a speeding ticket!
RIP Joe, my friend.
Must go faster!!!!
Must go faster!!!!
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Mr Evil has been studying the rules.
It pays to know the rules inside and out.
I'm impressed Steve. Thank you for passing on the appropriate application of the class.
Dave Y
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
I'm impressed Steve. Thank you for passing on the appropriate application of the class.
Dave Y
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
That goes double now that you are there!mrevilracing wrote:All the crazies run there so if you're normal, you won't be for long!!!!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Ryan Hetrick
#308 SM
#308 SM
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Steve, You might want to ask Mark about this. I believe there is a CID rul but,. alll it does is push you to SSM tho.
I remember Mark telling me he was close to the SM limit when he supercharged the flat black car. That may have changed from that time i'm not really sure. I havn't been looking at the SM rules lately.
. I'm no longer eligible for that fun class! (bummer too because it would've been fun)
I remember Mark telling me he was close to the SM limit when he supercharged the flat black car. That may have changed from that time i'm not really sure. I havn't been looking at the SM rules lately.
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
Mitsubishi evo 8
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
I've read the reference to Appendix A a bunch of times and see no reason to disallow whatever displacement in SM as long as the block matches the car manufacturer. Considering that in ESP, the '69 Cuda is allowed, it came with an option of the 440Hemi. The only thing I see that should be adheared to regarding engine displacement is:
Off page 187:
Minimum Weight Calculations (without driver):
FWD: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs per liter
RWD: 1800 lbs + 200 lbs per liter
AWD: 1800 lbs + 300 lbs pre liter
Engine behind driver: +25 lbs per liter
Tire width 275mm or less (all): -200 lbs
Regardless of the weight formulas above, no car will be required to
weigh more than 3100 lbs.
No threat of me being near that 3100lbs limit. I'll always be 300lbs above that, unfortunately. But wouldn't it be nice to have an '04 Mach at 2900lbs and 550rwhp??? I'd have to have Hoosier on speed dial.
Off page 187:
Minimum Weight Calculations (without driver):
FWD: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs per liter
RWD: 1800 lbs + 200 lbs per liter
AWD: 1800 lbs + 300 lbs pre liter
Engine behind driver: +25 lbs per liter
Tire width 275mm or less (all): -200 lbs
Regardless of the weight formulas above, no car will be required to
weigh more than 3100 lbs.
No threat of me being near that 3100lbs limit. I'll always be 300lbs above that, unfortunately. But wouldn't it be nice to have an '04 Mach at 2900lbs and 550rwhp??? I'd have to have Hoosier on speed dial.
RIP Joe, my friend.
Must go faster!!!!
Must go faster!!!!
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Well Steve, thank you for answering one of my questions. I don't have time to research the classes but in the back of my mind I thought the 68 Barracuda had some pretty big engine options. He can upgrade to any engine that was available in that year or any years that is covered on that line.
Again, I want to emphisise that no one should post any advise unless you have the actual ruling to go along with it. Don't say that you thought a few years ago it was, blah, blah blah. Look up the rules and help out. Don't confuse the issue. Every year the rules change. State the FACTS and only the Facts as they are for the 2011 season. If you don't know, look it up before posting.
Thank you,
Dave Y
Again, I want to emphisise that no one should post any advise unless you have the actual ruling to go along with it. Don't say that you thought a few years ago it was, blah, blah blah. Look up the rules and help out. Don't confuse the issue. Every year the rules change. State the FACTS and only the Facts as they are for the 2011 season. If you don't know, look it up before posting.
Thank you,
Dave Y
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Dave,
In SM you can use any engine manufactured my the car manufacturer. It has nothing to do with the car, year, or lines in the rule book. If he wanted he could put a Viper V10 in place of a slant six (just an example). It is pretty wide open, and as Steve posted, the displacement only has to do with minimum weights.
In SM you can use any engine manufactured my the car manufacturer. It has nothing to do with the car, year, or lines in the rule book. If he wanted he could put a Viper V10 in place of a slant six (just an example). It is pretty wide open, and as Steve posted, the displacement only has to do with minimum weights.
Ryan Hetrick
#308 SM
#308 SM
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Dave, I'm glad somebody is out there protecting us from bad info on internet forums. ![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
Mitsubishi evo 8
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
The reference to engine size limitations was for ESP rules. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I wanted to point out that there is an alternative to running with those crazy guys (I mean that in a loving way) in Street Mod.
Dave Y
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
Dave Y
- geowit
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Steve, great info on the rules. Quoting them always adds to the validity of the advice.mrevilracing wrote:...., it came with an option of the 440Hemi. .....
Small change from an old motorhead, the 440 was a B series "wedge" engine (same block as the 361 & 383 cids), the hemi was a 426 cid.
Thanks,
Geo.
#103 '85 Mazda RX-7 ITS
Geo.
#103 '85 Mazda RX-7 ITS
- mrevilracing
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Technicality, technicality.geowit wrote:Steve, great info on the rules. Quoting them always adds to the validity of the advice.mrevilracing wrote:...., it came with an option of the 440Hemi. .....
Small change from an old motorhead, the 440 was a B series "wedge" engine (same block as the 361 & 383 cids), the hemi was a 426 cid.
RIP Joe, my friend.
Must go faster!!!!
Must go faster!!!!
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
ok your both wrong....361,383,400 are B-engines. 413,426,440 are RB-engines (RAISED BLOCK) (WEDGE) 426-HEMI was also part of RB series.
Steve is also correct that there is no engine size limit, just has to match manufacture.
Steve is also correct that there is no engine size limit, just has to match manufacture.
2nd 84 camaro,85 camaro, 99 Camaro, 04 vette
Trees taste good
Occasional novice instructor
Mike Robinson
Trees taste good
Occasional novice instructor
Mike Robinson
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Again to clarrify, unlimited for Street Mod, he may undate or back date any engine available covering the years and model specified in the ESP list.miniacmike wrote:ok your both wrong....361,383,400 are B-engines. 413,426,440 are RB-engines (RAISED BLOCK) (WEDGE) 426-HEMI was also part of RB series.
Steve is also correct that there is no engine size limit, just has to match manufacture.
Chrysler, Plymouth, & Dodge
Barracuda (1965-69) & Dart,
Duster, & Valiant (1963-76)
(A-body)
As long as he stays within the allowable modifications for Street Prepared in the SOLO rules
Dave Y
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Re: New to Hillclimbing
Only regarding mods NOT listed in Street Mod. Otherwise, you follow Street Mod rules which are less restrictive than Street Prepared.dspgti wrote:
As long as he stays within the allowable modifications for Street Prepared in the SOLO rules
Dave Y
See here:
Street Prepared
15.2.A
Replacement of
complete hood, flared fenders, or quarter panels is prohibited.
But:
Street Mod
Front hoods (engine covers), engine covers, trunk lids and hatches
not containing glass, front fenders, rear fenders not part of chassis
structure (unibody), front & rear facias, and side skirts may be modi-
fied or replaced, and may be attached with removable fasteners.
Associated hardware including latches, hinges, and window washer
nozzles may be modified, removed, or replaced. This does not permit removal of the remainder of the window washer system. Fenders
may be flared as per Street Prepared. Non-metallic fender liners may
be modified, replaced, or removed.
RIP Joe, my friend.
Must go faster!!!!
Must go faster!!!!