Found New Hillclimb Site

[Ray Colbert]

All,

Good news I have located what I consider the 2 lb lobster of Hillclimb sites. It is about 4 miles long with numerous switchbacks and signature turns, excellent pavement and very steep. THat is the good news. The bad news is it is in Arizona on AZ route 89 between Sedona and Flagstaff. I was yelling on the tour bus as we went up I think the people thought I was a bit strange even though I had my orange Weatherly hoodie on. Thats the news from the Grand Canyon State. Pics to follow next week when I get back home. I hope 1500 miles is not to long to tow.

OK, to answer some questions:

Yes there is a park at the top much like Duryea.

Go toGoogle earth and look up Sedona Arizona, find AZ 89A and go north. The 3 D image tells all. It is spectacular. Probably 15 turns, 4 swtchbacks, WOW

Ray Colbert
Pittsburgh PA

[Mel Horn]

Well, we don't have Rose Valley this year, so why not?

FWIW there are a number of potential sites closer to reality that need to be looked at in case we have another RV situation and we lose something even temporarily...

[Mazdahead]

I've been on those roads and they are a blast to drive! I thought exactly the same thing the last time I was there! My wife was a little car sick by the time we reached Flagstaff, but I had a ball driving! Slide Rock is so cool for those that have never been there, you need to take a slide down the rocks! Beware, the water is very cold!
Is there any committe or assignees to look for new events? If so, that would be great to identify new sites and let the members know about potential sites for our review. I do have a few places in mind, maybe we should start sharing notes?

[Rich Sweigart]

Finding new sites has so, many varibles before you can even let it out to the membership.
1. Can the site support us? Pit area, turn around, corner stations, spectator area, spectator parking
2. How many homes on the road? A hill with 100 homes on it is no good, either is one with buildings near it.
3. Condition of the road? Potholes, dips and jumps, who owns the road. Will it be a challenge to the drivers, when given the whole road?
4. Political views of the area?
5. Local support?
6. The site has to be inspected by a SCCA licensed hillclimb inspector and with paperwork sent to national.
7. Dates?
Over the years, I have had many sites picked out only to fail do to an issue.
Pocono Raceway: Dates given conflicted with Weatherly and Pagoda.
Nazareth Speedway: Got the rental rates down low enough for us, then track got sold to a builder, who later went belly up. Thanks, Nascar.
Carversville Hillclimb: Had the site inspected by Matt Green, talked to a local SCCA member that lived the next street over. Political views of the area, they want to keep outsiders out due to colonial homesteads and way of life in the area.
Willow Grove Naval Base: Obama and our fine Gov. Fast Eddie have screwed the whole deal.
Springtown Hillclimb: Yes, the old Springtown Hillclimb, too many jumps and buildings near road.
Since 1990, when PHA was reformed. We have lost 2 hillclimbs and 2 track events.
Montage Hillclimb: Too many homes.
Pine Grove Hillclimb: Really not supported by anyone; drivers, local; except,poor Lynne DeHart.
Pocono Raceway: Poor concept of how to deal with 2 events(regional road race and time trials) at the same time. Something that I stress to Tri-Region everytime that they ask me about doing a time trial event.New Hampshire: Late in the season, long tow, NER moved onto other events.

Not a easy task finding new sites.

Rich

[Mel Horn]

Rich:
I have answers ( actually, responses...) to many of the points you raise. My concern is that a separate set of eyes are needed...if I could just get SOMEONE ELSE to look at them perhaps? I think I have had ONE looked at.
(responses keyed to the above)
1. I attempt to take support areas into consideration, e.g., imagine a pit and paddock as well as turnaround, etc. If I can't see it happening, I drive right by and don't even make note of the location.

2. Same here. I 've seen Montage and others go away. I think I have one house on a couple of my sites. Mostly none.

3. Crappy roads don't even rate a second look. BTW, anybody besides Rich and myself visit Pine Grove in the past few (not to be confused with Fieux) years? Gack.

4 and 5. Useless to pursue until 6 is accomplished. NOT GOOD to find a site and get folks ready to go only to find a inspector finds an issue we missed.

6. Self explanatory

7. Again, useless until the above accomplished. I think our season starts too late and ends too early, but, hey, that's just me.

Locations with GPS coordinates (also keyed to the DeLorme Pennsylvania road atlas)are available to anybody who sends me an email.

bmw22mel@aol.com

[Rich Sweigart]

Mel,

I knew that you would chime in, what I was trying to offer was a blueprint of what I look for in a hillclimb site or TT site. I usually like to look for something fresh and new, because usually old sites had problems or issues and that is why they are old sites. As far as a second set of eyes, yeah I have a few good ones to help out like a former safety steward, hillclimb site inspector, chief of tech, formula car driver.

I haven't been successful yet, but I keep trying!

Rich

Back to the laboratory, how to figure out the size of an APU unit that can run a turbo at max boost pressure without any turbo lag!

[Mel Horn]

Rich...Three of mine are old.One was run a few times (Hobbie/Green Mt), one only once (Town Hill) and the other was almost-but-never run (Locust Gap). The rest (4 or 5) are new. One of which MAY have been seen by Matt Green but I can't be certain.

[Rich Sweigart]

Mel,

Yeah, from time to time, I hear talk about Hobbie/Green Mt. but, nothing is done. Sitting between Giants and Weatherly might hurt it as far as sponsorship dollars. Plus, who would put it on?

I really wanted Nazareth or Willow Grove and try to tap into my region's huge solo program to see how much fun we are having.

Rich

[Mel Horn]

Let's see if we can annoy someone enough to take a look. Not just Green Mt but others. We should emphasize that east of the Susquehanna for the most part might be futile (notable exceptions are Green Mt and Snake Rd)

[Ted Klaus]

Why are you people looking for New H/C sites? We have enough trouble at time MANNING the ones that we have! And if you REALLY want another specific site,why don't YOU find out what the SCCA requirements are and preview it YOURSELF and then ask for an official review along with the REASONS this is such a terrific idea?
Ted K.

[Mel Horn]

Ted, truth be told, I have previewed a number of sites for a number of years and have done PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED!...I have a pretty damn good idea what will fly and what will not. I just want someone with another set of eyes to confirm what I feel might (or might not) be a good site and maybe move on from there. I think over the past 20 or so years it's happened once or twice and we haven't moved forward for one reason or another...mostly a car-getting- airborne potential. So be it. I've got a lot more. Is there a "formal" set of requirements from SCCA? I've asked around and have yet to see them. Mostly I compare the potential site in my mind's eye to a known entity, say a Weatherly or Rose Valley .

Why am I looking? When I get a negative reaction like yours (thankfully not often) I wonder, but mostly so we have some alternate places if/when we have a this year/last year Rose Valley-like situation, e.g., events beyond our control (like flood damage).

Sorry to have bothered you.

[LARRY LONG]

Mel

Sent you a PM.

Larry Long

[mrevilracing]

I like the idea of alternate sites. And I like the idea of maybe running something new. Nothing wrong with what we have at all. They all are challenging. But a new site, or even an old site, would be a good addition or substitute.

What are the SCCA requirements? Is there some place that has this info posted or is it simply up to the TTAC to determine whether or not a site is good or not?

[Rich Sweigart]

Steve,

SCCA does have some basic requirements as far as road to buildings distance, spectator areas, no jumps. If you find a site, it should be inspected by a SCCA licensed hillclimb inspector, if he or she thinks it is ok; then you need to make photos of the course, get a site plan of worker stations and file them with the SCCA. Of course, by this time; you whould have permission from the land owners, some sort contact with the locals and the DOT to see if, this is a good idea with them. Even if, the event is on a closed site like Jefferson circuit, it needs to be inspected by the SCCA.

It takes alot of work to get a new site going, Polish Mountain had to get a bill passed thru the Maryland state house and senate to run a hillclimb on a public road.

Hillclimbing is a great sport but, it is a fagile one too, it does not take much to destroy it. I would hate to go back to the days of only a Weatherly and a Duryea every year, we have come a long way since then.

Rich

[Mel Horn]

Steve,

SCCA does have some basic requirements as far as road to buildings distance, spectator areas, no jumps.

Rich

I have basically filtered out areas where I can envision a car getting in trouble and hitting something manmade. No jumps also, or at least no launching a Windstar/BMW 325.

Then again who could have forseen the 350Z at Rose Valley finish in '08?

[jerdeitzel]

Rich, how does one go about being a scca licensed hillclimb inspector? I've never seen that license available. Anyone can go find a hillclimb site if they want. Can we run it? IMO it has more to do with everything else and not so much with worrying about if the scca will allow it. Don't let negative comments change anyone's minds sbout trying to find new sites. If you want to put on events read the rules. It's pretty self explanitory and any SCCA member can file for a sanction to put on an event.

[Rich Sweigart]

Jer,

Maybe Matt Rowe can shed more light on this subject, generally a hillclimb site inspector is a seasoned TT safety steward with years of expirence.

Generally, it comes down to how open is the arms of the community to have us come and play in their backyards as we see at Weatherly, Polish, Giants, and Rose Valley.

Rich

[rallynutdon]

Why are you people looking for New H/C sites? We have enough trouble at time MANNING the ones that we have! And if you REALLY want another specific site,why don't YOU find out what the SCCA requirements are and preview it YOURSELF and then ask for an official review along with the REASONS this is such a terrific idea?
Ted K.

What if someone found a great 3 mile road with many turns and challanges. You wouldn't be interested in using it instead of some of the lesser challanging shorter courses?

[Mel Horn]

Why are you people looking for New H/C sites? We have enough trouble at time MANNING the ones that we have! And if you REALLY want another specific site,why don't YOU find out what the SCCA requirements are and preview it YOURSELF and then ask for an official review along with the REASONS this is such a terrific idea?
Ted K.

What if someone found a great 3 mile road with many turns and challanges. You wouldn't be interested in using it instead of some of the lesser challanging shorter courses?

Speaking for myself but I think most agree: We look for places to SUPPLEMENT, not REPLACE existing events. No one wants to lose what we currently have...
To your point, I have found a possibility in the area where Bedford and Huntingdon Counties intersect, and it's close to a 3-miler. There is a Point Of Concern (bridge) but that would shorten it to 'only' about 2.5...
That said, I remember having trouble manning sites when we ran two or three a year! If we could tap into some of the personnel that showed up for Hershey "Hillclimb" (AKA "Autocross With Trees") to show them some real events...

[geowit]

Anyone up for a trip to Norway?