ERW BARS & CAGES LEGAL?

[Richard Elliott]

Appendix J (A) in the new solo rule book says ERW roll bars are ok in solo 1. Then in the level 2-3-4 rules it states the bars or cage MUST meet the GCR rules (NO ERW). What gives? Which one is true? Thanks, DICK.

[Matt Green]

No ERW. My screw up.

[Richard Elliott]

Thanks for the quick reply. DICK.

[Joe B.]

I thought that as of 1/1/05, all new construction cages had to be DOM.
But a rollbar could be ERW. This is for the Street Prepared, Street Mod classes.
The higher classes like the GT's and IT's and Specials have to use cages.
Will my car be "grandfathered" with the ERW rollbar since I ran it last year in DSP, and I'm switching to Street Mod?
If not, my season is over before it even starts.

Joe Bartek
#38 DSP/SM '84 Toyota Supra

[Matt Green]

OK here's the deal-

This was one of those things that was missed during the rewrite. Whoever authored those rules sure did leave a lot of crap to be cleaned up...

All NEW constructions must be DOM. All current ERW cars (you have a "logbook" for the car) are OK. This is even if you change classes. If you have a previously run car with ERW, you will NOT have to change, ever, no matter the class.

Now, if you have a current, lets say, ITA car with ERW and it was logbooked for Solo 1, you can continue to run it until it is gone. IF, however, you decide to go Club Racing with the car, and it never had a Club Racing logbook (only Solo1), it would be considered by ClubRacing to be a "new construction" and the ERW would be illegal for that (but again, you could keep running with Time Trials.

If for some reason this changes, you will be given PLENTY of notice (a few years) to decide what you want to do. We (the Time Trials program) will not make changes that require major work to a current car without giving proper notice to competitors. The last thing that any of us want to do is screw people out of running a car that was prepped to the rules of a year or so ago.

Just remember though Joe, if you build another one of those things, it needs to be DOM.

[Joe B.]

Thanks for clearing that up Matt.

Joe Bartek

[Mel Horn]

Just for the sake of arguement, what is/was the issue with ERW? Just wanna know...

[Richard Elliott]

Well and foremost, this outlawing of ERW tubing was a product of SCCA's staff of lawyers. I'm also sure that testing of ERW cages and roll bars, against DOM cages and roll bars, was done in a maner that left no doubt, that ERW tubing, when welded or bolted into a cage or roll bar, and then bolted to a cars floorboard of 22 gage mild steel, with a 6 or 7" square plate of steel would fail big time. Hey! Everybody knows what would happen. The ERW cage would fold up like it was made out of straw. And that 22 gage floorboard? Why it would be ok reguardless of what happen to the cage. But we racers know what would really happen don't we? We all know that 22 gage floorboard would give up long before the cage would. Hell! A cage made out of tail pipe tubing would out last that floorboard. Now I know what your going to say next. Good cage builders tie into better parts of the car than the floorboards. RIGHT! But what about all those Autopower and Kirk cages out there on the tracks? SCCA outlawed the wrong end of the cage. My 2 cents worth.

[Matt Green]

But what about all those Autopower and Kirk cages out there on the tracks?

Well, let's see... Kirk has used DOM tubing for years. And all SCCA did was to say that no NEW cars can use it, they didn't do anything to screw the current competitors...

And if you have such contempt for SCCA, why the hell is it that you're here again?

I think your value of $.02 was a trifle overestimated.

[Richard Elliott]

Read the GCR. ERW is history in roadracing. All I've stated above, was SCCA was looking at the wrong safety item. By the sound of your posting, your car must be one of those where the cage is held up by 22 gage steel. I wish you a safe race. And please don't get so up tight over one old mans 2 cent worth. After all, I've made it through 52 years of racing by asking "WHY" You should try it. By the way, Kirk still sells ERW bars and cages if you want them. DICK.

[Matt Green]

Read the GCR. ERW is history in roadracing. All I've stated above, was SCCA was looking at the wrong safety item. By the sound of your posting, your car must be one of those where the cage is held up by 22 gage steel. I wish you a safe race. And please don't get so up tight over one old mans 2 cent worth. After all, I've made it through 52 years of racing by asking "WHY" You should try it. By the way, Kirk still sells ERW bars and cages if you want them. DICK.

You know, you should really figure out who you're fighting. ERW is still allowed, just not in any new constructions. Oh, and I do ask why. In fact, next time you actually run a Time Trials event and you can use belts that are 2-5yrs old, ask yourself who lobbied to get that done. Granted, it wasn't only me (it was a few people on the Task Force), but I certainly was one of those who "questioned" the reasoning of the rule, and actually carried through with it, rather than sitting and making ignorant ponitifications...

See, Dick, we've had this discussion before, and I'd rather not have it again. Enjoy your complaining and griping about things that don't matter, and the rest of us will move on, deal with it, and try to make it better in the future.

[Tim Royer]

HI all,

Dick does have a very valid point about the floorboards. My AutoPower plates are on the small side also but I do intend to make larger plates for it. I think that was the point he was trying to get across.

[Steve Tumolo]

When I rolled the Mustang the Autopower cage held up great. Even though the roof along the windshield was wrapped around the top of the cage the floor brackets did not distort one bit. I do agree that the placement of the pads in a Mustang could have been moved around a little for optimum strength. But after that wreck I stand behind Autopower.

[Tim Royer]

Agreed!

[dick elliott]

Thank you Tim! I'm glad someone out there understood what I was talking about. I was just trying to show, that an ERW gage from Autopower and Kirk is FAR stronger than what SCCA allows it to be bolted to. Every one with one of these cages should inlarge the pads to the 100 sq inch pad allowed in IT. On my own car, I have add'd a bar from front to back, along side the door sills, on both sides of the car. They touch the floorboards, but not welded to them. If my cage push's through the floor boards, it'll have to take more than 36 sq inch's of 22 gage steel. SCCA has said a 360 deg cage is the way to go for at least the past 25 years. And bad mouth the club???? Man you should read whats on the IT and Production web sites. I just hope that someday, NHRA gets into road racing, so I can carry around the rule book in my shirt pocket. Thanks to some who understand. DICK.

HI all,

Dick does have a very valid point about the floorboards. My AutoPower plates are on the small side also but I do intend to make larger plates for it. I think that was the point he was trying to get across.