Start line - Giants

[mrevilracing]

Although the subject heading is targetting Giants, I THINK it aplies to Duryea also.

Since this hill finds the driver heading down hill at the start, I'd like to suggest the chock be put in front of the front tire for rear wheel drive cars and stay at the back tire for front wheel drive cars. I seem to recall the hop over the chock as starting some tire spin. While this may occur without the chock, I believe this adds to it. Any objection to having the placement of the chock changed?

Oh and for Jeremy's AWD thing a ma jig, a full 4 tire LARGE wheel chock set up is in order. Maybe even a concrete baracade. Personally, prefer a spike strip but that may be a little too extreme for the majority of folks.

[FV195]

I think that John will place the chock/ rag under any wheel you ask. as for stopping the evo????? a chain to the fire truck might do it

[Matt Rowe]

So am can I assume that you are expecting the start line worker to pull the wheel chock out after the fronts roll over it but before the rears?

Two issues I can see. First, the worker has to see the car pulling up to the line, think about if it's front or rear drive, walk to that end and chock. Sure it sounds easy, but there is a definite rhythm to worker start to make sure that everyone is checked as thoroughly as possible.

Second, if the chock isn't pull back in time there is a much greater chance it will be going for a ride up the hill.

Oh, I almost forgot the most important reason. We have always done it that way.

Seriously though, we can see talk about it up there with the start line workers. Keep in mind, John isn't always there and the guy working the wheel chock is typically the less experienced individual. The other option is to skip the wheel chock and hell-toe the car.

[Mwilson]

NO COMMENT

[Tom Styczynski]

If you are looking for an alternative to chocks check out the videos from the Gurston Down Hillclimb in the UK. The course drops 30 feet at the start line. The start line crew hold the cars by the body and rear wings.

http://www.gurstondown.org/

[mrevilracing]

Well, since I am the only 1 asking for this, I will request it at the start line. That shouldn't be a problem.

[Steve Tumolo]

Why does it really matter? The timer starts 10 feet from the staging spot. Lite turns green, roll over the chock then do what ever you want. The chock used for Giants is just a rope that is folded up and taped. Not very thick and it turns out to be just enough to hold the car from rolling forward.

[Mel Horn]

First I could see a potential safety issue for the person working the chock.

(Mel... must...resist...smartass...comments...)

Also:

A rolled up/taped up section of rope (as stated above) worked fine at Giants' last year.

[mrevilracing]

The way I see it is that the start line is where I gain or lose time. I prefer to not have to hop over anything while I am accelerating. Watch the 1st 5 or 6 seconds here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgRbv4821c It is clear the car is hopping over something with the back tires. So I kind of prefer not to is all.

So am can I assume that you are expecting the start line worker to pull the wheel chock out after the fronts roll over it but before the rears?

A little tension on the rope and the chock is right there with the start line guy. Watch part of this video and look closely at the guy holding the chock line as well as the location of the chock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIbJacFv50k

Either way, if I'm the only 1 on the grid with this request, it'll be pretty easy for the start line guys to identify which car is non-compliant with standard procedure. If necessary, I can get some vinyl lettering and an arrow "CHOCK HERE PLEASE -->".

[Matt Rowe]

Steve,

I've worked start line, no need for me to look at pictures/movies. I can also say that a little bit of tension is a) not always present and b) not always enough to clear the chock. Consider that someone took the chock for a ride at Pagoda, there is a safety implication. We don't want the chock to get attached only to come loose mid corner and hit a worker or spectator. As I said we can consider it, but I make no promises.

[Speednation]

You RWD guys want it all. Us FWD guys have to deal with up hill starts, and when we get on the throttle, all of the weight shifts to the rear tires and we just sit and spin. Finally, we are not at as much of a disadvantage, and you guys are wining about the wheel chock. Suck it up and deal with it. The starter has enough to worry about than to cater to you old school american iron push rod panzies. And stop wearing your pants down at your knees and listening to rap music - that is our thing dudes. We got Hunter to come back from the dark side (from his Mustang to my old Civic) - Steve - I got a used Civic for you too. You could finally feel what it is like for a car to stick to the road in a turn.

[dspgti]

No particular opinion. Just a few notes:

Which wheel to chock has always been up to the driver.

I remember when I started driving at Giants, they didn't have too many front wheel drive cars (stop laughing, I'm not that old). They would ask me or I had to tell them to chock the back wheels.

In the old days, before the 10 foot rolling start, the starter would hold the timing hose under the front wheel like a hockey stick and had to pull it out of the way as the car started rolling. (How'd you like to stand next to Merlin and do that? )

I don't know if you understood what Matt was saying. At Pagoda last weekend, the chock stuck to the tire of a car that carried it away and had to be red flagged.

Getting the chock away from the drive wheel is important. It can become a missle whether you are going up or down grade.

Dave Y

[Rich Rock]

You RWD guys want it all. Us FWD guys have to deal with up hill starts, and when we get on the throttle, all of the weight shifts to the rear tires and we just sit and spin. Finally, we are not at as much of a disadvantage, and you guys are wining about the wheel chock. Suck it up and deal with it. The starter has enough to worry about than to cater to you old school american iron push rod panzies. And stop wearing your pants down at your knees and listening to rap music - that is our thing dudes. We got Hunter to come back from the dark side (from his Mustang to my old Civic) - Steve - I got a used Civic for you too. You could finally feel what it is like for a car to stick to the road in a turn.

Mike,

Mike, I'm shocked. I have known you for many years and I simply never expected this from you. I was going to send you a private message, but I decided that this was important enough for everyone to read.

Someone with all your experience should know that the correct spelling is "pansies" .

Rich Rock

[Joe Foering]

Unless there is some teutonic blood in there somewhere.

[mrevilracing]

You RWD guys want it all. Us FWD guys have to deal with up hill starts, and when we get on the throttle, all of the weight shifts to the rear tires and we just sit and spin. Finally, we are not at as much of a disadvantage, and you guys are wining about the wheel chock. Suck it up and deal with it. The starter has enough to worry about than to cater to you old school american iron push rod panzies. And stop wearing your pants down at your knees and listening to rap music - that is our thing dudes. We got Hunter to come back from the dark side (from his Mustang to my old Civic) - Steve - I got a used Civic for you too. You could finally feel what it is like for a car to stick to the road in a turn.

Driving a civic isn't happening. And there ain't no rap in my Mach! Ever! Sorry, that's just not my type of music.
Catering? Well, now that you mention it.......there should be food and drink catered at the start line. Yeah, right there. Take a bite and a drink and get the green light. How cool is that? And it could be easy stuff. Maybe some shrimp or pieces of lobster tail. Nothing real fancy. Filet or NY strip even. Small bites, you know.

I don't know if you understood what Matt was saying. At Pagoda last weekend, the chock stuck to the tire of a car that carried it away and had to be red flagged.

Getting the chock away from the drive wheel is important. It can become a missle whether you are going up or down grade.

Dave Y

I understood what Matt was saying. Which tire did it get attached to? Drive tire or not? And a quick look at the video I posted clearly shows the chock( with little effort) was pulled and didn't interfere at all.

Doesn't matter. It'll be more fun to go off on a tangent with this. Thanks Mike!

[griffinbilt]

so i think i am going to come out...not to race thought...

i have been trying this new thing..it's called FUN... this fun thing is great. i highly reccomend everybody check this crazy new fad out....

also what about an airplane chuck for the starting line?? the old double side wheely dealy??

i do however like the sounds of a duct taped piece of rope.. does anyone realize we are the last true form of outlaw motorsports??? generally i feel it should be a "those who know" moto sport that is not designed for contesting motors and madness like that.... and reasonable class placement has always been at the contestant's digression.

bottom line is some crazy town councilmen still let us do the mayhems and goings ons that we do..in multiple counties...how much time is really lost on a ten foot launch?? really? worst case scenario no more then 3 tenths of a second..
what the hell do i know anyways..i'm just a dumb redneck from the country backroads..


p.s. i look forward to seeing everybody again

[dspgti]

...how much time is really lost on a ten foot launch?? really? worst case scenario no more then 3 tenths of a second..

I'd kill for .3 of a second. I have lost and won a race with a .001 second margin.

But I'm sure that this issue involves any time at all. I think it is a matter of saftey. Having a big bore RWD roll over a chock and spit it out the back is not a good idea in my opinion. Perhaps we need to rethink this process?

Dave Y

[jerdeitzel]

FWIW. After looking at my times at pagoda I'd estimate a bad launch cost me upwards of 1 sec. That really was a tuff part of that hill, getting off the line clean. I'm usually pretty consistent with launching the car but I was having trouble there.

[Mel Horn]

Unless there is some teutonic blood in there somewhere.

But wouldn't the tank tracks tear up the road?

Especially after how hard it is to get Duryea and Weatherly repaved!

[Matt Rowe]

I'm starting to see it this way. The wheel chock (which at Giant's is always a "soft" chock) placed at the rear wheels is a courtesy to help the drivers. It is there so that you don't need to need to hold the brake while waiting for the light. If for whatever reason you don't want that courtesy than simply refuse it when you pull up to the line. Otherwise we will follow the same procedure for every competitor that we have followed since I have been involved.

There is a safety aspect to this procedure. First and foremost, the start line workers are there to make sure you pull up to the starting line properly and that you and the car are ready to go. Once checked they back away as much as practical. Requesting the worker position themselves at the front wheels means increasing the risk to them due to mechanical failures and wheel spin. It is also a break in their routine which is focused verifying the car and driver are ready.