roll cage questions
Moderators: Rich Rock, Mazdahead, Matt Rowe
-
- Novice
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:13 pm
- Current Racecar: 1991 240sx w/ sr20det swap
- Location: wilkes-barre, pa
- Contact:
roll cage questions
im looking to do the giants dispair hill climb this year and possibly weatherly i do solo events but wanna get in the hill climb now my question is will a 4 point roll cage be adaquit enough to enter? and is anyone familiar on what class i'll be in for a 240sx with a sr20det engine in it?
-
- Novice
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:22 am
- Location: Trafford, Pa
Re: roll cage questions
Street Mod. A four point is fine, has to meet some requirements, I can't recall at this time. I'm sure someone will chime in. Come on out, we'd love to have you!
'97 BMW M3 #53 SMX
-
- Novice
- Posts: 1363
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 7
- Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
- Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ
Re: roll cage questions
You will have to explain what a SR20DET engine is. What class do you run in with SOLO II?iownthemountains13 wrote:im looking to do the giants dispair hill climb this year and possibly weatherly i do solo events but wanna get in the hill climb now my question is will a 4 point roll cage be adaquit enough to enter? and is anyone familiar on what class i'll be in for a 240sx with a sr20det engine in it?
Time Trials allows for SOLO II classes of Street Prepared and Street Modified to run with a four point roll bar with a diagonal bar and a parallel bar with head restraint, one piece driver seat and appropriate driver saftey equipment, 5 point harness of 5 years or less. Driver saftey equipment includes SFI fire protection, SNELL SA 2000 or better helmet and the car must pass all requirements of the class you wish to enter.
Seems like a lot to digest? Ask for help or a mentor. We will walk you through the processes.
Please come and join in the fun!
Dave Y.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:13 pm
- Current Racecar: 1991 240sx w/ sr20det swap
- Location: wilkes-barre, pa
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
in the solo II i was in the stock class at that time i had the ka24de stock motor the sr20det is the motor that was used in the 240sx in japan it is a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder turbocharged motor im probably putting out about 250whp. seems like i got quite a bit of stuff to buy for this anyone know of a good cage maker preferably bolt in?dspgti wrote:You will have to explain what a SR20DET engine is. What class do you run in with SOLO II?iownthemountains13 wrote:im looking to do the giants dispair hill climb this year and possibly weatherly i do solo events but wanna get in the hill climb now my question is will a 4 point roll cage be adaquit enough to enter? and is anyone familiar on what class i'll be in for a 240sx with a sr20det engine in it?
Time Trials allows for SOLO II classes of Street Prepared and Street Modified to run with a four point roll bar with a diagonal bar and a parallel bar with head restraint, one piece driver seat and appropriate driver saftey equipment, 5 point harness of 5 years or less. Driver saftey equipment includes SFI fire protection, SNELL SA 2000 or better helmet and the car must pass all requirements of the class you wish to enter.
Seems like a lot to digest? Ask for help or a mentor. We will walk you through the processes.
Please come and join in the fun!
Dave Y.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:22 am
- Location: Trafford, Pa
Re: roll cage questions
I've personally had an autopower in my mustang and M3, and both fit well and did the job. I have installed their 8 pt. and I thought it was horrible though, but the 4 pt. bars are fine. Keep in mind a lot of this stuff can be found used, especially with your chassis. A lot of the drifters are upgrading from the bars to the cages, just keep your eyes open. I bought both of mine used, one for 275 and the other for 250. Feel free to ask any more questions you might have, we would love to have you in Street Mod, we LOVE guys with only rollbars and not full cages.
'97 BMW M3 #53 SMX
-
- Novice
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:13 pm
- Current Racecar: 1991 240sx w/ sr20det swap
- Location: wilkes-barre, pa
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
would something like this be good enough to get by http://www.projectnissan.com/shopping/p ... oduct=1326Mark Aubele wrote:I've personally had an autopower in my mustang and M3, and both fit well and did the job. I have installed their 8 pt. and I thought it was horrible though, but the 4 pt. bars are fine. Keep in mind a lot of this stuff can be found used, especially with your chassis. A lot of the drifters are upgrading from the bars to the cages, just keep your eyes open. I bought both of mine used, one for 275 and the other for 250. Feel free to ask any more questions you might have, we would love to have you in Street Mod, we LOVE guys with only rollbars and not full cages.
by the way were you at weatherly last year with the white m3?
-
- Novice
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:20 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 5
- Current Racecar: Womer EV-1 Fvee
Reynard 84FF
Porsche 924
Hyper 600 micro sprint
Delcraft micro stock - Location: Quakertown, PA
Re: roll cage questions
No that cage is not legal. What the heck is chrome molybdenum pipes anyhow?
Might I suggest that you try emailing info@kirkracing.com or check out www.ioportracing.com . They sell legal bolt-in bars/cages.
You also might check out the classifieds section on www.improvedtouring.com for used stuff .
I also think that you should download the Time Trials rules, and the Street Modified rules from www.scca.com .
Rich
Might I suggest that you try emailing info@kirkracing.com or check out www.ioportracing.com . They sell legal bolt-in bars/cages.
You also might check out the classifieds section on www.improvedtouring.com for used stuff .
I also think that you should download the Time Trials rules, and the Street Modified rules from www.scca.com .
Rich
Rich Sweigart
-
- Novice
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh
Re: roll cage questions
Welcome! Glad to see a new prospect interested in giving hillclimbing a shot. You will love it! If there is anything you need, please feel free to ask. I am pretty well versed in the SOLO and Street mod rules and many of the TT ones as well, so i'll help you out as best as i can.
As for the engine swap you are perfectly legal for SM. Pretty much if you can drive the car on the street you can run that class. There may be a few strange things that you can't do but, the first few event don't worry too much about that. We'll help you once you show up.
Now onto the safety stuff. The big thing will be the car.
4 point roll bar- Autopower or kirk are you best bet for a good roll bar, they will cost somewhere around $400-600 depending on the options you get. Shipping is a big expense on these tho. (so look for a used one first if you can).
Seat-
Belts- 5 points or more. You can get these about $100 new if you go for a cheap brand.
FIre ext- You need at least a 5lb one with a vehicle mounting bracket. (you can get these for under $40).
Thats it. Your still looking at about $800-1000 for the car
DRIVER STUFF- This is a place that we can all help. You can get a decent 2 layer fire suit for pretty cheap, but if your on a really tight budget we can put together a loaner suit, gloves and such. Get a helmet and i'm sure we can come up with the rest.
Here is a list of stuff.
1. driver suit- 2 layer , or 1 layer and underwear.
2. socks
3. baclava if you have facial hair
4. gloves (i have a pair you can have)
5. arm restraints-(about $40)
It really is worth every penny you put into your car to do this. I hope to see you on the hills.
As for the engine swap you are perfectly legal for SM. Pretty much if you can drive the car on the street you can run that class. There may be a few strange things that you can't do but, the first few event don't worry too much about that. We'll help you once you show up.
Now onto the safety stuff. The big thing will be the car.
4 point roll bar- Autopower or kirk are you best bet for a good roll bar, they will cost somewhere around $400-600 depending on the options you get. Shipping is a big expense on these tho. (so look for a used one first if you can).
Seat-
Belts- 5 points or more. You can get these about $100 new if you go for a cheap brand.
FIre ext- You need at least a 5lb one with a vehicle mounting bracket. (you can get these for under $40).
Thats it. Your still looking at about $800-1000 for the car
DRIVER STUFF- This is a place that we can all help. You can get a decent 2 layer fire suit for pretty cheap, but if your on a really tight budget we can put together a loaner suit, gloves and such. Get a helmet and i'm sure we can come up with the rest.
Here is a list of stuff.
1. driver suit- 2 layer , or 1 layer and underwear.
2. socks
3. baclava if you have facial hair
4. gloves (i have a pair you can have)
5. arm restraints-(about $40)
It really is worth every penny you put into your car to do this. I hope to see you on the hills.
Last edited by jerdeitzel on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
Mitsubishi evo 8
-
- Hall of Fame Member
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 am
- PHA Permanent Number: 95
- Current Racecar: Vector FV, BMW R100R, 914-2.0
- Location: Carlisle
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
Some thoughts: You will be buried with ideas, mostly good ones, all well intended. Review them and when in doubt, ask questons. Helmets have Snell approvals and dates. You will need an SA2005 (the next issue will be in 2010). "M" series helmets are NOT acceptable. Do not buy a helmet without trying one on; especially if you wear glasses. Bells fit differently than Pyrotechs, than G-Force, etc. The issue is oval head vs. round head. And, make sure it is snug, but not tight, when you buy it....they break in with time. You do not want a sloppy fitting helmet. The driving suit should have an SFI-5 rating (and other than wear and tear, they do not have an expiration date - so get a good one and take care of it). Consider suits that are machine washable vs. dry clean only (your choice, just know what you are getting). Any leather shoes will do, but driving shoes can be had for less than $100 and are worth it.
As far as roll bars, seats, seat belts, etc GET THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD....hillclimbing is a real thrill, but occasionally a car gets rolled into a ball or tinfoil and we all like to see the driver step out and walk away. OH, seat belts have an expiration date, so be careful buying used...they are cheap enough that I hightly recommend NEW.
Join the SCCA and request a NOVICE TIME TRIAL PERMIT**. Although you will not need a physical until you apply for the Time Trial license. The medical forms are available on line (SCCA), so if you are going to see you doctor in the near future, you may as well get the MD to fill out the forms.
As a novice you will attend a special drivers' meeting and get a ride up the hill, where a nasty novice instructor will stress safety, and will point out (not the fastest line) the places you must avoid. Hillclimbing is akin to autocross in that and late apex is usually best.
There are no dumb questions. So ASK. **Usually available at the hills.
John PItman (possibly the novice instructor)
As far as roll bars, seats, seat belts, etc GET THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD....hillclimbing is a real thrill, but occasionally a car gets rolled into a ball or tinfoil and we all like to see the driver step out and walk away. OH, seat belts have an expiration date, so be careful buying used...they are cheap enough that I hightly recommend NEW.
Join the SCCA and request a NOVICE TIME TRIAL PERMIT**. Although you will not need a physical until you apply for the Time Trial license. The medical forms are available on line (SCCA), so if you are going to see you doctor in the near future, you may as well get the MD to fill out the forms.
As a novice you will attend a special drivers' meeting and get a ride up the hill, where a nasty novice instructor will stress safety, and will point out (not the fastest line) the places you must avoid. Hillclimbing is akin to autocross in that and late apex is usually best.
There are no dumb questions. So ASK. **Usually available at the hills.
John PItman (possibly the novice instructor)
John Pitman FV95
http://www.johnpitmanphotography.com
http://www.johnpitmanphotography.com
-
- Novice
- Posts: 1363
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 7
- Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
- Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ
Re: roll cage questions
Great advise Jeremy.
Let me elaborate a little on the roll bar so you know what to look for. The weight of your car dictates the diameter and wall thickness of the tubing. In any case, it must be DOM (drawn over mandrel), not ERW (elecric welded) tubing. Autopower, IO port and the others usually are one size bigger than necessary but a good choice for bolt in. They usually have a SCCA compliance notification. It must have two down tubes going rearwards, a diagonal bar in the main hoop plane and a full width horizontal tube about shoulder hieght, a good place to mount the shoulder harness. If the bar you choose has an option for a seat back brace, get it.
Good Luck, don't be afraid to ask for help.
Dave Y
Let me elaborate a little on the roll bar so you know what to look for. The weight of your car dictates the diameter and wall thickness of the tubing. In any case, it must be DOM (drawn over mandrel), not ERW (elecric welded) tubing. Autopower, IO port and the others usually are one size bigger than necessary but a good choice for bolt in. They usually have a SCCA compliance notification. It must have two down tubes going rearwards, a diagonal bar in the main hoop plane and a full width horizontal tube about shoulder hieght, a good place to mount the shoulder harness. If the bar you choose has an option for a seat back brace, get it.
Good Luck, don't be afraid to ask for help.
Dave Y
-
- Novice
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:24 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 37
- Current Racecar: '85 Dodge Charger 2+2
- Location: Fleetwood
Re: roll cage questions
Some corrections to Jeremy's list...this is based on the 2008 TTR, the 2009 are not out yet...
-A 2 pound minmum extinguisher is all that is required; make sure the mounting bracket is METAL not plastic
-While it is recommended that you get a racing type seat, it is NOT required...yet.
In general, good advice, but read the rules yourself because you're the person who will run or not depending if the car complies with the rules.
-A 2 pound minmum extinguisher is all that is required; make sure the mounting bracket is METAL not plastic
-While it is recommended that you get a racing type seat, it is NOT required...yet.
In general, good advice, but read the rules yourself because you're the person who will run or not depending if the car complies with the rules.
-
- Novice
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:13 pm
- Current Racecar: 1991 240sx w/ sr20det swap
- Location: wilkes-barre, pa
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
i appreciate all the help everyone its great to actually ask question and not get slammed about it. Still a little confused on the diagonal bar and parallel bar, i went to the site that rich recommended and found this http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/m ... Code=AP670
this should work right?
this should work right?
-
- Novice
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh
Re: roll cage questions
Well Joe would be the one who kno's the rules. As for the fire ext, they only come in 1,2.5, or 5. My main point is don't get one of the car show 1lb types. And if you need it i'd rather have alittle extra in that bottle myself.Joe Foering wrote:Some corrections to Jeremy's list...this is based on the 2008 TTR, the 2009 are not out yet...
-A 2 pound minmum extinguisher is all that is required; make sure the mounting bracket is METAL not plastic
-While it is recommended that you get a racing type seat, it is NOT required...yet.
In general, good advice, but read the rules yourself because you're the person who will run or not depending if the car complies with the rules.
And the seat. I swear that a racing style bucket seat was required in 2008 for the driver only. (well looks like that never went thru i guess). This is the reason to read the rules every year as they DO change. I"m going off of the 2007 book which i read many many times. I guess i better read the 2009 ones.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Sorry for any confusion. The rules are sometimes overwhelming so please feel free to ask if you don't kno. There are plenty of us that will be able to find it in the rule book much quicker then you reading the whole darn thing 100 times. (This dosn't mean you shouldn't read the rules thru tho)
That roll bar looks perfect.
As for not slamming you. lol. We are all trying our best to become better about questions from newcomers. It has been brought to our attention that alot of time questions are not answered and the old "read the rule book" is stated. So my position is "read the rule book thru but asking is a good way to start" And if someone states something that is incorrect i'm sure someone will correct it.
PS. Joe (chief tech inspector) and John (great novice instructor) are both great people who will help you.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
Mitsubishi evo 8
-
- Novice
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:20 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 5
- Current Racecar: Womer EV-1 Fvee
Reynard 84FF
Porsche 924
Hyper 600 micro sprint
Delcraft micro stock - Location: Quakertown, PA
Re: roll cage questions
Yes, the bar is good, if you buy it, you want the one made out of DOM steel. ERW is illegal. Do not forget to get some roll bar padding, if it is used on the street, I would get some for the passenger too.
Word of caution, if you install this yourself, you need to watch out for any brake, fuel, or wires that might be in the way of drilling out the base plate holes.
Rich
Word of caution, if you install this yourself, you need to watch out for any brake, fuel, or wires that might be in the way of drilling out the base plate holes.
Rich
Rich Sweigart
-
- Novice
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:24 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 37
- Current Racecar: '85 Dodge Charger 2+2
- Location: Fleetwood
Re: roll cage questions
As Richie says, the roll bar is good and it illustrates both the diagonal and the horizontal bars as well as a potential seat brace (the little horiz. bar that goes from the left side of the main hoop to the diagonal). Jerdeitzel is correct in saying ask a question...someone will answer you (I will for one), but always confirm the info received. A six point harness is a good idea also...multilayer suits eliminate the need for nomex underwear...you might want to come to PHA's next meeting on 2/7/08 near Fleetwood, PA if you can; you will meet your fellow racers and find out just how crazy we are!
-
- Novice
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:13 pm
- Current Racecar: 1991 240sx w/ sr20det swap
- Location: wilkes-barre, pa
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
so i got the cage settled now how about this suit combo i found is this legal
http://www.pitstopusa.com/detail.aspx?ID=62953
i appreciate the help is the 2009 rules out yet?
http://www.pitstopusa.com/detail.aspx?ID=62953
i appreciate the help is the 2009 rules out yet?
-
- Hall of Fame Member
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 am
- PHA Permanent Number: 95
- Current Racecar: Vector FV, BMW R100R, 914-2.0
- Location: Carlisle
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
OOPS. Joe Foering is right. Heed what we say, and then double check things. Earlier I said a suit with SFI-5 is required. Not so, a mistake on my part. That G-Force SFI-3, multi-layer suit is good. GForce makes good stuff, as do many other manufacturers. Many of us use GForce suits.
-
- Hall of Fame Member
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 am
- PHA Permanent Number: 95
- Current Racecar: Vector FV, BMW R100R, 914-2.0
- Location: Carlisle
- Contact:
Re: roll cage questions
You know, I worked too hard today, and my brain is tired. Let's try this suit rating again: SFI 3.2A/1 is acceptable, and if I read the GCR right (P.76), flame retardent underwear is required. If a SFI 3.2A/5 rated suit is worn, the underwear is not required. (There is where the 5 came from in my first post on this issue).
We are looking forward to meeting you. I believe you said something about Giant's Despair and Weatherly (once my hometown). but give consideration to our Time Trials on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point. Lots of room to learn, and learning is what the novice period is all about.
John FV95
We are looking forward to meeting you. I believe you said something about Giant's Despair and Weatherly (once my hometown). but give consideration to our Time Trials on the Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point. Lots of room to learn, and learning is what the novice period is all about.
John FV95
John Pitman FV95
http://www.johnpitmanphotography.com
http://www.johnpitmanphotography.com
-
- Novice
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:24 pm
- PHA Permanent Number: 37
- Current Racecar: '85 Dodge Charger 2+2
- Location: Fleetwood
Re: roll cage questions
the G-Force suit in the adv. requires nomex underwear to be worn with the suit. If you get a multi-layer suit (SFI 3.2A/5-preferable), you won't need underwear. If you have facial hair you will need a balaclava. Consider arm restraints over a window net... See you on the hill!
Re: roll cage questions
What class would a 2nd gen rx7 with a ford 5.0 be in cause thats what i will be running.