Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

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gmreider
Racer
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:31 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 13
Current Racecar: SAAB 93 900S 86 900S

Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by gmreider »

I am expecting to run a SAAB 900S in SMF (solo rules) at Duryea . I have not run the hill since about 1972-3, so I am a novice. I have my TTR permit, helmet, socks , belts etc. I am getting hung up on what the solo vs TTR rules are saying. I have an auto power roll bar due here any day.
My issues are:
(1)STOCK folding seats: as I read TTR sect 9.2 L., I can use a stock folding seat if I secure it so it can't fold. I have no problem in buying a better seat, but money may be getting short just now.
(2)Fuel Lines: Solo rules seem to state that OEM factory fuel lines are OK . Saab factory lines run through the inside of car as OEM in hard plastic. TTR says all lines must be metal. I talked with Jason Morris , who runs in SMF at Pagoda 2012 & Duryea last year and he says he was allowed to keep the plastic lines in his car. Which is correct? Would isolating the lines with steel panels correct the issue. Saab uses a lot of odd ball fittings to connect fuel components that may lead me to have a lot of rubber hose and clamps. That seems like more of a safety problem than the proven OEm lines?
(3) Master electrical. switch : seems to be highly recommended, but not required in the class. Yes or No?
(4)AIR BAG: This car has one air bag for the driver. TTR doesn't seem to require removal? My thought would be to disarm for TT use and connect for street use. This car will be street driven to events for now.
(5ABS Brakes: )This car has ABS brakes. Are they required to be disconnected ? GCR seems to discuss this but not TTR rules .

Any accurate opinions or rulings would help as I wait for conformation that I made the entry cut.
Thanks, Gary R
SteveTC
Novice
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:19 pm
Location: Hunlock Creek, PA 18621

Re: Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by SteveTC »

gmreider wrote:I am expecting to run a SAAB 900S in SMF (solo rules) at Duryea . I have not run the hill since about 1972-3, so I am a novice. I have my TTR permit, helmet, socks , belts etc. I am getting hung up on what the solo vs TTR rules are saying. I have an auto power roll bar due here any day.
My issues are:
(1)STOCK folding seats: as I read TTR sect 9.2 L., I can use a stock folding seat if I secure it so it can't fold. I have no problem in buying a better seat, but money may be getting short just now. (As long as seat back is secure, you can leave it. the main concern becomes belt routing to be sure that the submarine belts and shoulder harnesses are properly aligned when you are seated in the car, and many times it is not possible with OEM seat without cutting holes in them.)

(2)Fuel Lines: Solo rules seem to state that OEM factory fuel lines are OK . Saab factory lines run through the inside of car as OEM in hard plastic. TTR says all lines must be metal. I talked with Jason Morris , who runs in SMF at Pagoda 2012 & Duryea last year and he says he was allowed to keep the plastic lines in his car. Which is correct? Would isolating the lines with steel panels correct the issue. Saab uses a lot of odd ball fittings to connect fuel components that may lead me to have a lot of rubber hose and clamps. That seems like more of a safety problem than the proven OEm lines? (OEM lines should be acceptable. The main concern is if they are not braided or metal, then they should have a covering over them or be bulkheaded as the rules state. If you can cover them I would suggest it).

(3) Master electrical. switch : seems to be highly recommended, but not required in the class. Yes or No? (For Solo class cars they are not required. If it is installed, though, it must work properly with a 4-pole switch and be able to be tested at about 2000RPM to make sure alternator does not keep car running.)

(4)AIR BAG: This car has one air bag for the driver. TTR doesn't seem to require removal? My thought would be to disarm for TT use and connect for street use. This car will be street driven to events for now. (As long as they are disabled via fuse or other means, they do not need to be removed)

(5ABS Brakes: )This car has ABS brakes. Are they required to be disconnected ? GCR seems to discuss this but not TTR rules . (ABS is allowed in a solo class car)

Any accurate opinions or rulings would help as I wait for conformation that I made the entry cut.
Thanks, Gary R

Hi Gary and welcome, See answers above.
vern2point3
Novice
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by vern2point3 »

Looks like a good place to ask my questions.

I'm currently rebuilding my old Solo II car to bring it up to date from its last outings some 20 years ago. I'll be going back into E Prepared but I want to keep an ultimate goal of moving up to being a Solo I and hillclimb car. The car is already beyond either E Street Prepared or Street Modified rules and I don't want too spend time and money undoing suspension and chassis modifications I've had on the car for years.

That said, E Prepared does not cross over directly into Solo I classes. I don't want to build to Club Racing rules because there are serious differences between EP and GT3, which is where the car would fit into Club Racing. Again, I don't want to have to undo changes that have been on the car of years. (vented hood, 17x10 wheels and 13-inch brake rotors vs no hood vents, and 15x7 wheels and brakes to fit)

Do I have to go into a class way over my head (Specials) or does PHA class cars loosely enough to put an EP car into GT3? It isn't like I'm going to be a run-away winner because of the differences.

Thanks for your response, Vern Moore
SteveTC
Novice
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:19 pm
Location: Hunlock Creek, PA 18621

Re: Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by SteveTC »

vern2point3 wrote:Looks like a good place to ask my questions.

I'm currently rebuilding my old Solo II car to bring it up to date from its last outings some 20 years ago. I'll be going back into E Prepared but I want to keep an ultimate goal of moving up to being a Solo I and hillclimb car. The car is already beyond either E Street Prepared or Street Modified rules and I don't want too spend time and money undoing suspension and chassis modifications I've had on the car for years.

That said, E Prepared does not cross over directly into Solo I classes. I don't want to build to Club Racing rules because there are serious differences between EP and GT3, which is where the car would fit into Club Racing. Again, I don't want to have to undo changes that have been on the car of years. (vented hood, 17x10 wheels and 13-inch brake rotors vs no hood vents, and 15x7 wheels and brakes to fit)

Do I have to go into a class way over my head (Specials) or does PHA class cars loosely enough to put an EP car into GT3? It isn't like I'm going to be a run-away winner because of the differences.

Thanks for your response, Vern Moore
Hi Vern,

Sorry, but the answer here is that once the car is prepared beyond Street Mod rules and/or gutted out beyond allowable modifications, then it must upgrade to a GCR class including all required mods to fit that class, including fuel cells and full cages. You would have to look into your fit for production classes, improved touring, or GT classes and meet those rules as described for the class. The only other option is going in as a special, which is more open for interpretation, but again requires at least a full cage and everything described in the supplemental regulations for the events..
McDallion
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:07 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 43

Re: Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by McDallion »

The GT Specs say the largest permitted wheel in GT3 is 15X7 unless the cars spec sheet lists something larger.
Don
vern2point3
Novice
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Could use some rule interpretation for time trials

Post by vern2point3 »

Looks like the ultimate direction for the car just changed. Ditch the normally aspirated motor and break out the 2.3 turbo parts stock. And get some bigger wheels, tires and brakes.

I'll build to NASA"s American Iron Extreme rules and run Special at hillclimbs I really want to do.
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