Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

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dspgti
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

It is wonderfull to see someone taking such an interest in learning the rules that they take the time to read them. I tell everyone, "The Rule Book is Your Best Friend". Learn it inside and out.

So far you haven't stated any engine modifications and I doubt there is anyone who knows what a SVT Focus is. Fill us in. As I see it, you could run ITE. The E stands for everything. You could run SMF which as stated before is Street Mod Front Wheel Drive. You will need a little more interior but not much else. Then there is STU Super Touring Under (again don't know what you have modified), SPU which is Super Production Under (up to 2.0L forced induction and up to 3.0L normaly asperated) These classes let you be creative.

The GCR for club racing has the STU rules, for SPU rules you will need help, don't hesitate to ask. For ITE it's a little this and a little that. It's a regional only class with vague rules so it's a good catch all class.

Keep asking questions, we'll try to keep up,
Dave Y
SVTFocus
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Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

here are the specs for a Stock fresh off the factory floor SVT Ford Focus (built from 2002 to 2004 with a little over 14k total produced)
Engine
4 cylinder 2.0L 16valve DOHC equpied with Variable Cam Timing on the intake side only
Duel stage intake manifold(smaller opening at lower RPMs and larger opening at higher RPMs)
Cylinder Bore:: 3.34 inches
Stroke:: 3.46 inches
Forged Steel connecting Rods
20mm Wrist Pins
lightweight cast aluminum pistons
Compression:: 10.2 to 1
Horsepower:: 170 at 7,000RPMs
Torque:: 145 ft-lbs. at 5,600RPMs
Redline:: 7,200RPMS
Intake Valve Springs:: 27% stiffer than regular model Zetec engines
Exhaust Valve Springs:: 19% stiffer than regular model Zetec engines
Intake Valve diameter:: 33.5mm
Tuned Tubular header (best flowing headers available for the Zetec engine)
oil cooler

Drivetrain
6-speed Getrag transmission (the same as a Mini Cooper S)

Suspension
129 lb/in spring rate front
157 lb/in spring rate rear
retuned struts
21mm sway bars front and rear
4 wheel disk brakes
300mm vented front brakes
280mm solid rear brakes
single piston calipers
ABS
17" alloy wheels

Thats the specs for a stock SVT Ford Focus again these were produced from 2002 until 2004 when Ford switched from the Zetec engine to the Duratech. My next post will be a list of parts on my car in two lists, things that I have removed, things that are on the car as it sits in the drive now.
Here is where I got most of the info::http://myfordfocus.com/svt/index.htm
Last edited by SVTFocus on Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SVTFocus
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Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Here are two lists of things that I have removed from my car and things that are currently in the car, everything italicized is a performance part I added myself.

In the Car now
2.0 DOHC Zetec SVTF engine
Heat Wrapped stock header
stock air intake
stock intake manifold
Fidenza 12lb. flywheel
Clutch Masters Stage 3 performance clutch and pressure plate
5 in. shifter base riser
KW Variant 3 coil over suspension
Sparco Sprint seat
Half cage
roof vent with scoop bolted to panel covering removed sunroof
Eibach sway bars (22mm in front 25mm in rear)
2.5 in. Magnaflow catback exhaust system
F1 style side mirrors

Things I removed from the car
Airbags, airbag system controller, sensors, and wires
Stereo system including wires and speakers
HVAC system including stock heatercore, AC Compressor, Lines, AC radiator, all ducting and controls, and some of the wiring
all stock seats front and rear (only run with a Sparco Sprint seat as a passenger seat sometimes)
Door Panels
Carpet
Center Console
Plastic surrounds
Head Liner
Sunroof
Radio antenna
Stock seat belts and latches (currently running Sparco 4 points REALLY need to get 5 points ASAP)
Stock Side rear view mirrors
jerdeitzel
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

From the looks of it i'd really think about putting carpet and door panels back in and running SMF.

Dave, How soon you forget that you recieved your wish when we did the ITE rules. That is a full cage only class!
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
SVTFocus
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Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

So to run SMF all I need is carpet and door panels? and to run ITS I just need a stock Flywheel? But in SMF all my mods are legal?
camaroz1985
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by camaroz1985 »

For SM or SMF you need most of the interior in the car. You are allowed to remove the rear seat, and any panels that you need to in order to install the rollcage (a bit of a gray area). You would have to reinstall the passenger seat, carpet, center console, headliner and any of the rear panels that you can fit with the cage. All your other mods are allowed. Just to double check you can check out the solo rules 2011 Solo Rule Book. SM starts on page 107.

Also your cage would be legal for SMF. My cage is the same, but I am adding the diagonal before the season starts.
Ryan Hetrick
#308 SM
SVTFocus
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Honestly I think it would be a bigger chore to find all the screws and bolts for the panels, find a carpet, stock seats, and other things than to get a stock flywheel. I think I might just swap my flywheel out and install the Diagonal bar inside the mainhoop to be on the safe side for that. Again the rules don't state that it has to be 1 solid continuous bar, can anyone shed some light on that? Since my Harness bar is in there I was thinking of just making it a two piece diagonal and putting two "tacos" on it.
SVTFocus
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Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Alright I figure this.

I am building this car for the ITS class; things I know I need to change are:: Replacement of Stock Flywheel, checking to see if the roof scoop is a-okay for ducting. One thing I would also like to clear up is finding out about Engine mounts, I didn't see anything in IT rules about engine mounts. I'm assuming I would then have to keep stock mounts? I am going to be adding a Diagonal bar in the Main Hoop plane but also need to 100% sure I can section the diagonal, or if not I may have to cut out the harness bar put the diagonal in and then put the harness bar back in. Everything else in the car, aside from needing a fire extinguisher, and a 5 point harness is legal under the IT rules. So now that I know what I'm building for I still have a few questions that need answered. If I bring the car to your meeting in April is it? in Reading would some of you guys be willing to take a look at it and point out some things I need to do and help answer questions?
dspgti
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

Wow, my head is starting to spin. I said we would try to keep up but I'm not so sure now.

In my opinion (and they are like ass holes, everybody has got one) You have a roll bar that qualifies for every class except GT1 and Specials in the sedan classes.

Change your clutch if you want to run IT anytyhing but ITE (I heard there is an ITX class but lets not complicate things). Make it look like you have a stock interior from the front doors forward for Street Prepared anything, get rid of the scoupe for anything but ITE and you are in.

A diagonal bar in the main hoop should be okay in two pieces but don't cut your cross bar till somebody proves me wrong. The X bar in the back braces is all you need unless you go GT1 or Specials and then it is perfectly legal if you complete all the other full cage requirements.

Anyone want to dispute my opinion?
Dave Y
SVTFocus
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

dspgti wrote:Wow, my head is starting to spin. I said we would try to keep up but I'm not so sure now.

In my opinion (and they are like ass holes, everybody has got one) You have a roll bar that qualifies for every class except GT1 and Specials in the sedan classes.

Change your clutch if you want to run IT anytyhing but ITE (I heard there is an ITX class but lets not complicate things). Make it look like you have a stock interior from the front doors forward for Street Prepared anything, get rid of the scoupe for anything but ITE and you are in.

A diagonal bar in the main hoop should be okay in two pieces but don't cut your cross bar till somebody proves me wrong. The X bar in the back braces is all you need unless you go GT1 or Specials and then it is perfectly legal if you complete all the other full cage requirements.

Anyone want to dispute my opinion?
Dave Y
Alright so then I'm set for ITS, just gotta lay my hands on a stock flywheel, looking at a few used ones on FocalJet now, and the roof scoop is easy enough to replace with another panel. Thank you guys for the help, still waiting on clarifcation on the diagonal (I just want it to be in there to be safe). I'm sorry if I'm confusing you guys, I'm trying to pick up what I can on my own but I can't answer all my questions lol.

Thank you all again!
Rich Rock
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Rich Rock »

A call to National should be made to find out for sure if the two-piece diagonal is acceptable. Personally, I would be okay with a nicely gusseted two piece design (I really like the "tacos" for this), but that doesn't mean that National will think so too.

Rich Rock, PHA tech inspector
dspgti
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

Thanks for jumping in Rich. A call would clarrify the wording used in the TT Rule book:

Sorry, can't copy and paste from TT rule book. Look up page 40 paragraph 11.4.4

Here is the wording from the GCR covering Production roll cages. Sorry again I can't copy and paste the drawings used.
That can be found in figure 20 page 193

All main hoops shall incorporate a diagonal brace (same diameter and
wall thickness as main hoop) to prevent lateral distortion of the main
hoop. The brace shall either be in the plane of the main hoop or extend
from the top of one rear brace (see figure 20) to the bottom of the
opposite brace. In the case of braces in the plane of the main hoop, the
brace must be attached at both ends to the main hoop, span at least
50% of the main hoop, and at least 75% of the height of the main


If a call is made to National, maybe the question could be asked why the Production brace wording is not included in all class cage requirements.

Dave Y
SVTFocus
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

I'll call them up on Monday
Thanks for the info!
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Mazdahead
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mazdahead »

First let me say welcome and that it looks like you have done a lot of work and it looks great.
Let me comment on what I see here, just another opinion.

If you want to run IT you must have a full cage as per GCR page 88 as follows:

AMERICAN SEDAN, IMPROVED TOURING, SHOWROOM
STOCK, SPEC MIATA, AND TOURING CLASSES–The roll cage
must attach to the vehicle structure (floor pan/ rocker boxes)
within the passenger compartment in a minimum of 6 points
and a maximum of 8 points as specified in these rules.

If you want to run a street class the hoop as is will suffice as long as you used the proper tubing and meet the thickness requirements.
You will need to put the passenger seat back in and a little carpeting, door panels, this should be the easier route.

I know how you feel about going into IT and messing up the car for the street, but that is kinda your choice.
I have both a street prepared car and an IT car and that is why I have 2 cars, different rules and the mods I was willing to do.
Our Street prepared car does have a full cage as well because these are hills and it usually hurts when you hit something!
You could put in removable side bars, which is expensive, but would allow you to effectively keep using it on the street.

Rich is correct, I would definitely call national and discuss it with someone there, but remember it is all up to you what class you want to race.
Bring it to the April 2nd meeting and I am sure someone will give it the once over and discuss your car with you.
I will check with Kurt Eichenberger about advance annual inspections prior to the season, we usually make that available.
I live close to Giannottis, maybe we could do something near my place?

Dale Witman - Tech Inspector
jerdeitzel
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Oh geez here we go again. The GCR is only used for car classification! Thats it. None of those classes require a roll cage as per the TTR.

Not trying to cause problems bu,t if our own tech inspectors don't kno what they are talking about how are we to help anyone?
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Mitsubishi evo 8
Rich Rock
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Rich Rock »

Under the TT Rules, which is what we follow, not all GCR-Class cars require a cage. It can be confusing, so the rules must be read carefully. Some IT-class cars running our events do not need a cage.

Does anyone think we should change the rules to state that all GCR-class cars competing in our hillclimbs require a GCR-spec cage?

Rich Rock
SVTFocus
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Now I'm all kinds of confused :?
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Mwilson
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mwilson »

Your original post was, "Very interested in getting behind the wheel." By now I am sure you would like to change it to read, " Not interested in ever getting behind the wheel." I would like to thank you for helping me make my mind up on a certain matter myself and others were contemplating for the up coming season. To those that I have talked with COUNT ME OUT! After reading this subject and looking at this Gentleman's last post, "Now I'm really confused" it is a wonder that anyone would be interested in preparing a car for any Hill Climb event. Good Luck my friend on getting the answers you were looking for. It is a shame that someone as interested as you should have to be so confused about the rules for classification in the PHA Times Trial Program. I thought I understood the rules slightly after 9 years of competition but now clearly see I have no idea of what classification is all about. Maybe if your lucky, they will create another new class for you to run in as they have recently done in the past. You have proven to me the need for a classification committee to set the record straight on many of these issues but I fear that this may be as they say, "like trying to shovel shit against the tide." Once again GOOD LUCK on your attempts to get the answers you have asked and certainly deserve! Many of these people certainly mean well in their attempt to answer your questions but in their rush to help have obviously confused you even more than before.
dspgti
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

11.4. HILLCLIMB (LEVEL 4)
Roll cages (as specified in the GCR) are required for the following classes: GT1, Specials, Super Production, all Formula classes,
all Sports Racer classes, open GT, and open Production vehicles. In these vehicles, the roll cage structure must meet current
GCR requirements for the specific class. If the vehicle does not fall into a Club Racing class, the cage should be prepared to the
GCR equivalent or greater (for example, a tube-frame Special car should be compared to a GT class cage, while a street-driven
car that ends up in Special because of odd modifications could be comparable to a Production or IT cage).
All other classes at Hillclimb (Level 4) Time Trials events are required to have a minimum of a roll bar that meets the description
in this section of the TTR.


Okay Rich, you asked the question. HELL YES, I THINK ALL GCR CLASSES SHOULD HAVE THE REQUIRED CAGE FOR THEIR CLASS.

BUT: I have to support the rules as they are written. I don't see any reference to IT or any other GCR or SOLO classes that require cages. Sure, I'd like to change it but these are the rules we have now.
dspgti
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Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

Who was that masked man?

Okay Morg. Since you blocked any PM's being sent to you, I guess I have to publicaly acknowledge your cynical but perceptive comments. You are right on the money.

DY
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