Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Do you want to get info on Hill Climbing or how you can become a driver? Post your questions here.

Moderators: Rich Rock, Mazdahead, Matt Rowe

User avatar
mrevilracing
Novice
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:24 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 341
Current Racecar: 2019 Mustang GT
Location: Fleetwood, PA

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by mrevilracing »

Holy cow! I've been working on the car and just NOW saw all this. LOL! Hey MORG!!! Glad to see you posted. I'm just trolling around for now. Actually, I need to get to work. I am gonna be late and that's not cool............
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
User avatar
Mwilson
Novice
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:53 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 116
Current Racecar: Beach Mark 5 (Special 2)
Location: York, Pa.

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mwilson »

Yes Steve, FOUR pages, 42 POSTS and counting to answer the question what class should I run in! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
SVTFocus
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm
Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Alright, I guess I still don't understand fully how classing works?

When I looked at this link:: http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%20Te ... ersion.pdf I flipped through until I got to the classes. After scrolling through the lists I stumbled into the ITS listing of cars which is where I found my car, Ford Focus SVT. Does that make ITS my baseline class? I've been up down and sideways through this rule book but appear to have a TON to learn still. As far as a master kill switch that would be fine to put on the outside of the car as long as I am able to bi-pass it when not racing, I wanted to add a master kill switch inside the cabin anyway. As for the rest of the classifying I would prefer to be in ITS, it appears it allows the greatest amount of flexibility in the way of minor performance mods, while keeping the additional work needed to complete my car at the most minimum. I'm hoping to be able to finish the car up, get my gear, and my novice license by mid to late summer so I can come out and play with you guys. But like I said the biggest concern right now is finding the class that my car is the closest too and finishing it in that class. So aside from the GCR link that I have posted that I have been reading like mad, what else should I be reading and what do I take from each rule book? I'm not going to lie I thought the GCR was the only rule book, its 700 pages in .pdf format lol.

And you shouldn't have to worry about me running off, I'm pretty bullheaded when I get set into wanting to do something, and I've brought the car this far, there is no turning back :D And just for the hell of it I am going to remove that roof scoop, I'm kinda sick of the attention it garners and am alittle tired of telling everyone, "yes its real no it doesn't duct to the engine." lol
Last edited by SVTFocus on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
SVTFocus
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm
Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Okay taking this from the TTR::
11.2. CLUB TRIALS (LEVEL 2)
Roll bars or cages will NOT be required in those cars prepared to Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring or Street Mod
specifications as found in the Solo rules, except for Convertibles and Targa* top automobiles. These cars must have
either a roll bar meeting Section 11 of the TTR or a factory hard top using the factory mounting hardware and
mounting points. Targa* top (and T-top) automobiles may forgo the roll bar requirement under the condition that the
Targa bar meets the height requirement set forth in 11.2.1.B. Any convertible that runs with a TTR legal roll bar must
do so with convertible top down and in the latched position.Any car modified beyond any part of those rules must be
equipped with a roll bar minimum. Any car modified beyond any part of those rules must be equipped with a roll bar
minimum. This includes cars prepared to the Solo classes of Prepared or Modified. Any car built to a GCR class MAY
NOT interchange preparation rules to circumvent the roll bar requirement (for example, even though an IT car may run
in the Street Prepared Classes at a Solo event, it does not qualify for the roll bar exception in this case, and must have
a roll bar to run any Time Trials event.


And according to the GCR all cars from Showroom Stock to GT and up must have a cage::
2. It shall attach to the car at no more than eight (8) points,
consisting of the basic cage with six (6) points and two optional braces.

The wording is a bit different for Touring cars, but doesn't explain anything for IT cars, I've read that section numerous times and fail to see anything other than Figure 16 make any mention of the IT class.

One other mention of the IT Class during any discussion of roll cage (the GCR makes no mention of roll bars, seems kind of roll cage happy) is this under
9.4.C.3. Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec
Miata, and Touring may extend one tube, from each front
down tube, forward to the firewall, bulkhead or wheel well,
but not penetrating any panel.
Again implying a full cage set, even in Showroom Stock where is appears the majority of the interior must remain in place.

So what supersedes what? The TTR says IT can use a rollbar, the GCR says everything must be caged?

What rules does the PHA use to classify a car, what rules does the PHA use to gauge the safety requirements on a car and what rules does the PHA use to race under? Its almost starting to seem like its a pick and choose thing and there isn't a baseline for anything. I understand I have to take everything I read here with a grain of salt, but honestly, I really don't mean to sound rude or like an asshole because I honestly and 100% want to get into the PHA and race with you guys, but it appears that no one seems to know what exactly the PHA uses. Like the post two above, 63 (by my count) posts and 4 pages to answer what class a car is, doesn't this point out that there is something wrong with classing? I read somewhere in the TTR that the rules are supposed to allow greater participation and greater interest. With how confusing this all is its a ridiculous notion that there could be any new participation or interest.

Again I don't mean to be insulting and I don't want to be an asshole, but it does honestly seem like everyone is on a different page. Just when it seems like I have my questions answered, I either find something new in the rules, or someone says something in here that makes me doubt what I thought I knew. If I can ever make heads or tails of this whole issue I plan on writing a supplement with all the rules just so I could hand it out to someone like me who is utterly confused in a sea of classes, rules, and speculation.

I do sincerely thank all of you for the time you are taking out of your lives to help with this confusing issue, it makes me even more driven to get involved with your group because you are all so helpful. I am proud to know that I am trying my hardest to get involved and get some time on the hills in this car with the PHA!
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Okay its time to put on my official hat, this is getting stupid. And yes i do hold official licenses from the SCCA.

You are doing a good job reading thru the rules. The class that you have found in the GCR that you want to run is ITS. Now stop and put down the GCR! Pick up the TTR and start reading. Where you went wrong with your post above is that all hillclimbs are level 4 events. So you can flip to the level 4 section in the TTR. (altho i suggest you read it all)

Everything is there for you. If it references the GCR for something then just go back and look at that specific thing.

In ITS you will need a master kill switch. It does not need to be mounted outside the car. It just must be accesible from outside the car. So welded onto a tab or on the dash near the driver side window is fine. ( I made a mistake in my post above about the bottem line of what you needed. I forgot about the master kill switch. This is why its good to discuss this stuff so we all remember all the little details. And now that i'm getting pissed off i went thru and reviewed all the stuff i need to be aware of)

You do not need and FIA seat. From page 29 of the TTR level 4. "SEATS- The seat shall be securely mounted, If its a folding seat it shall be bolted or strapped in place. It is highly recomended that the driver seat be replaces with a one piece bucket type racing seat that meeting and including a an upper brace if not FIA homologated. ( note the wording on this, Its only recomended to have a seat back brace on any bucket type seat.)

You really should be able to answer all your questions with the TTR. Its really only a few pages for driver safety stuff, car safety stuff and roll bar consrtruction. If you meet all those requirements you are set.

edit, We use the GCR, Solo rules and supps for classing. All other aspects of the TT program use the TTR.

edit # 2. I appoligize for bringing up some things in your thread that could have been brought up elsewhere. It was just a good lead in to a few issues that i think we should talk about.
Last edited by jerdeitzel on Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
FV195
Novice
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:38 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 195
Current Racecar: 1996 Vector GB2 formula vee, red @195
1992 Brazos formula vee, yellow, #70
Location: valrico, fl
Contact:

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by FV195 »

as far as the kill switch goes, if you are running an alt. make sure you get the right switch, that will kill the car, most switches just cut off battery. car must stop, fuel pump everything. should be tested at annual tech.
and why would you want to disable it when not racing? no reason you can't have two, one outside, one inside. that way you can kill it before corner workers get to you. I can not reach my kill switch while belted in.(formula car)
as far as classing tech leaves it up to the drivers to police themselfs. make sure you are within the rules, cage and such. you can change classes between events. you could go to a faster or slower class. sometimes it takes awhile to find your fit, a few events and people will tell you if they (hill vets) think your in the wrong class. you won't get yelled at by anyone. and just remember this is all about fun! if your not having fun, STOP! as far as the cage goes, overkill never hurt anyone. just have fun and take it easy at first, the hill will bite if you are not carefull. listen to your novice instructor (most likely my dad) he won't be able to tell you how to drive your car, he will just tell and show you where you can get in trouble, in any car.
hope I make it north for at least one event and get to meet you/ see your car.
THOR
FV70
TT tech inspector
User avatar
Mwilson
Novice
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:53 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 116
Current Racecar: Beach Mark 5 (Special 2)
Location: York, Pa.

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mwilson »

SVTFocus I feel your PAIN. Hang in there.
Last edited by Mwilson on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mwilson
Novice
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:53 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 116
Current Racecar: Beach Mark 5 (Special 2)
Location: York, Pa.

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mwilson »

Nice explanation Jeremy.
Last edited by Mwilson on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Oh and FWIW,

9.2.1 of the TTR- The points covered at tech and safety inspection

A. Eligibility for class entered. Compliance with the TTR, GCR and solo specification books. Each car should have a complete and up to date logbook.

Sooooo, The tech guys really are suppose to deal with car classing. Thats alot of classes to have them kno the rules about.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
User avatar
Mwilson
Novice
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:53 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 116
Current Racecar: Beach Mark 5 (Special 2)
Location: York, Pa.

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mwilson »

Well Jeremy I think you would get an argument from Kurt on this issue.
Last edited by Mwilson on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SVTFocus
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm
Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

jerdeitzel wrote:Okay its time to put on my official hat, this is getting stupid. And yes i do hold official licenses from the SCCA.

You are doing a good job reading thru the rules. The class that you have found in the GCR that you want to run is ITS. Now stop and put down the GCR! Pick up the TTR and start reading. Where you went wrong with your post above is that all hillclimbs are level 4 events. So you can flip to the level 4 section in the TTR. (altho i suggest you read it all)

Everything is there for you. If it references the GCR for something then just go back and look at that specific thing.

In ITS you will need a master kill switch. It does not need to be mounted outside the car. It just must be accesible from outside the car. So welded onto a tab or on the dash near the driver side window is fine. ( I made a mistake in my post above about the bottem line of what you needed. I forgot about the master kill switch. This is why its good to discuss this stuff so we all remember all the little details. And now that i'm getting pissed off i went thru and reviewed all the stuff i need to be aware of)

You do not need and FIA seat. From page 29 of the TTR level 4. "SEATS- The seat shall be securely mounted, If its a folding seat it shall be bolted or strapped in place. It is highly recomended that the driver seat be replaces with a one piece bucket type racing seat that meeting and including a an upper brace if not FIA homologated. ( note the wording on this, Its only recomended to have a seat back brace on any bucket type seat.)

You really should be able to answer all your questions with the TTR. Its really only a few pages for driver safety stuff, car safety stuff and roll bar consrtruction. If you meet all those requirements you are set.

edit, We use the GCR, Solo rules and supps for classing. All other aspects of the TT program use the TTR.

edit # 2. I appoligize for bringing up some things in your thread that could have been brought up elsewhere. It was just a good lead in to a few issues that i think we should talk about.
Thank you so much, I think I should be able to figure the rest out with the TTR, I didn't know that all you guys used the GCR for was just a list of classes and their respective restrictions. That is what I was so confused about, I'm sorry about my above post but I was getting a little aggravated with getting so confused from all the posts here. So now that I know my car is going for the ITS I need to grab the rest of the info from the TTR. If you don't mind me asking what are the rest of the GCR rules for? Just clubs that decide to use that instead of the TTR? Seems like some of the GCR stuff is more strict than the TTR.

If I have anymore questions I will post them but until then, I am now certain of what needs to be done and where to finish looking and reading for the rest of the info. Thank you guys ALOT, and I still should be coming out to the April meeting with this car as well.
McDallion
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:07 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 43

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by McDallion »

The GCR is for club racing. i.e. road racing.
Don
dspgti
Novice
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 7
Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

We are a division of Club Racing, not SOLO I Autocrossing. It may not be wheel to wheel, but it is real racing. It is a real challenge to the driver with real threats to loss of equipment, health and even life. It needs to be respected and emphisis needs to be on safety. How many times have we heard of "road racers" coming out and saying, "you guys are crazey, I'm not doing this".

The GCR needs to be respected and be impemented into our form of competition. Like it or not, these rules are "suggested" for a reason. Not for some obscure hypersensitivity. The suggestions come from real experience and post accident analisis.

I went too far with this response. Sorry
Dave Y
Post Reply