Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Do you want to get info on Hill Climbing or how you can become a driver? Post your questions here.

Moderators: Rich Rock, Mazdahead, Matt Rowe

SVTFocus
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm
Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Alright from all of this I am gathering that for me to run my 2003 Ford Focus SVT in the ITS class, I will need to do this as it currently stands::

Replace Fidenza Flywheel with stock flywheel
Replace Roof Scoop with non-vented steel panel
5 point harness
Weld in diagonal bar in Main Hoop plane

Is this correct Yes or No?

And I do agree all race cars or vehicles used for racing expecially on public roads, or around other cars, should require a full cage. But I also think that something like that would be kind of a put off to ALOT of young drivers such as myself.
User avatar
Mazdahead
Novice
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:51 am
PHA Permanent Number: 03
Current Racecar: 1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE 13B,
Location: Fleetwood
Contact:

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mazdahead »

Ok, I was wrong and man enough to admit it!
I apologize for adding stress to everyones life!
I was drinking a few and was easily influenced before I posted, dumb idea.
The paragraph that Dave posted is exactly the one that is confusing the issue.
I think we should review the wording of this paragraph.
This wording caused me some distress when I was planning my IT car originally.

The point made about the specials indicates that if the car was a street driven car the cage should be built to a production or IT cage specification. What does this mean?
Previously in that paragraph we have ommited the requirement of cages from production and IT cars and then we reference them?
I think it would be better stated that the roll protection should meet the requirements for a car originating from a street driven class.
Do not reference those classes or the word cage.

So, I guess he is good to go as is and I don't think he needs to install a diagonal brace as the diagonal braces in the rear section meets the requirements as written. Anyone want to add to this?
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Dale, I appoligize for jumping over that post.

My thought is to require all GCR classes to require a roll cage and all GCR specs for that class. If you want to run a roll bar only you run a SOLO class or vintage. (Which we then open up all the way to mod cars, Which will take care of the no interior not eligble for SM rules).

SVTFOCUS, Yes, but You don't need to do the diagnol bar like Dale and a few others have stated.

It looks as if you add a 5 point belt, fire ext, driving suit and gloves, socks, some leather or race shoe, a helmet, and arm restraints you are ready to race safety wise.

Class wise, you already kno what you need to do it looks like.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Or make a national SCCA TT classing system and put it in the TTR. Get rid of any reference or requirement to read any rulebook other then the TTR.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
SVTFocus
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:23 pm
Current Racecar: 2003 Ford SVT Focus ZX5

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by SVTFocus »

Roof Scoop still has to come off correct? Other than that question it looks like everything I oringinally asked was answered and thank you guys so very very much for the help. I'm sorry for the confusion but the rules are kind of written in a garbbled fashion.
User avatar
Mazdahead
Novice
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:51 am
PHA Permanent Number: 03
Current Racecar: 1985 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE 13B,
Location: Fleetwood
Contact:

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Mazdahead »

Jeremy,

I have been with you that he does not need to modify his cage beyond what he has now to meet the solo rules or the hillclimb rollbar rule.
Dave pointed that out early in the thread, it may not be the preferred method, but meets the rules.

I believe that the intent of allowing people to place their cars into IT or Production classes with only a bar is an interim step just for the hillclimbs or level 4.
This allows an easier path for solo guys as they build their cars for the class they are moving towards and keeps them on the street.
If this is not the case, I think one of the Matts or Kurt need to chime in on this, but I think I am correct.
I would not be opposed to using all GCR classes and rules as is, but this may impact solo guys monetarily from wanting to move onto the hills?

It would be nice when people shoot you down to add the reference to the rules where we are interpretting them incorrectly?
Don't just come in and post that I am an idiot, add more so I can fix my thinking or respond to where you think I went wrong.
I have read the rules a hundred times and get something different each time I read it.
Just to let you know how much I checked before posting, I read the new solo rules, I read the new GCR, I read the new time trial rules.
The TTR is where it is confusing, let's fix that!
I believe this language is what causes this error and we have had this discussion every winter that I can remember.
Maybe next year I will remember the rules in this regard?????
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

SVTfocus, I cant' answer the question about a roof scoop for you. If it were a few years ago i would just say to show up talk to your fellow competitors and ask them if they are okay with it. (which 99% of them would be) but, if you want to see a shit storm post that up! :lol: If its not legal its not legal!

Dale, The reason i don't post up links and such anymore is beacuse i'm sick of reading the rule book for people.

If the idea of the rules is for a next step for solo folks, then we should just use more solo classes. Just about everything will fall under a solo class car wise. Who is going to build a car for a GCR class without following the GCR? (Well there are a few but they don't need to be in GCR classes.) If you then decide you want to go Road racing you can then build your car to whatever class you want in the GCR and actually make it legal to race.( Imagine someone with what they think is an IT? car from TT"s going to a driver school and saying, oh i have a IT car. They look at it and say, where is the rest of the cage? Well i've been running IT? with the SCCA for years. How come its not legal? )
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
dspgti
Novice
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 7
Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

Don't forget, IT class requires a master kill switch. :shock:

Oh! is the seat FIA approved (most but not all Sparco's are) If not FIA rated you'll need a back brace to roll bar.

Dave Y
dspgti
Novice
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 7
Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

jerdeitzel wrote:Dale, The reason i don't post up links and such anymore is beacuse i'm sick of reading the rule book for people.
I'm with you there Jer. The only reason I'm involved is SVTfocus is showing some real inititive and trying to understand what the rules are and he is doing his homework. Otherwise he would get lost like everyone else and come out unprepared and have to go home disappointed.

Getting involved with these kind of things keeps me up on the rules. I forget more than I remember.

Dave Y
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

Stick with us SVTFOCUS! It will be worth all your effort. Just kinda sit back and watch this one tho. There are actually some very important things being brought up here that its time to address them for the coming years.

Kill switch is listed under 10.24. of the TTR

Thats a funny rule tho." Its required in a purpose built racecar" . Sure it gives an example of any GCR car but, is a car that is not really legal for a GCR class a purpose built racecar? what is a purpose built racecar in technical terms? Couldn't you argue that a SOLO car built for national competition is a purpose built racecar? Or that a car that falls into a GCR class because of carpet and small stuff is running only a roll bar not considered a purpose built racecar?

And before i go any further. I better read the GCR for what classes are allowed to not have a kill switch

Thought i'd just throw in some more fun to this conversation.

Disclaimer; Do not listen to anything that is said on a forum. Everything is in the rule book. Read and decifer at your own risk.
Last edited by jerdeitzel on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

SVTFOCUS, does your car fit into touring 2 or 3 mayb?. You woudn't need a kill switch in that class according to the GCR!

FWIW. showroom stock and touring don't require kill swithes per the GCR.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

So if we just used all solo classes for cars with roll bars we could have just told this guy, " hey, you have a car that has a roll bar. Great, look at the solo rules to find out what class your in. Oh your in ?prepared. great. Your roll bar meets specs. you now need helmet, fire ext, driving suit, etc."

"See you at the hill! "

But look where we are. Isn't the motto of the SCCA now "make it easy make it fun".
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
User avatar
gdh57
Site Admin
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by gdh57 »

SVTFocus, keep in mind that nothing you read on this forum is official. I think that most posters are actually trying to help, and some have done the research, but others are just guessing and posting their answers as if they are official. This is a good place to start, but believe nothing you read and nothing you are told by anyone that is not a tech inspector unless you have personally confirmed it in the rulebook. I have already found this out the hard way and will freely admit it was my own stupid fault for believing what I was told without confirming it.

As far as the rulebooks go, as long as you understand that you need to start look at the TT rule book for safety equipment, where it overrides some GCR sections and references others, and use the GCR for car preparation, and also understand that the TT overrides where they are in conflict, it is not that confusing. But from your previous posts, it looks like you are doing a perfectly fine job reading the rulebook and that you are now asking for clarification on one point - the roof scoop.

I haven't personally looked at whether or not a roof scoop is allowed in ITS (and as per my own words above, you shouldn't believe my interpretation anyway). You apparently have read the rules but have a question. So if the rulebook is unclear, call the national office for clarification. That is what they are there for :-)

Also, note that our tech inspectors will only advise on safety equipment and not car preparation, and that National is the only place you can get definitive answers on car preparation when the rulebook is unclear.

As far as this and that being overlooked and not worrying about meeting all the rules for a class, well, to whoever said this, then why are we bothering with classes and rules in the first place? We either follow the rules or we don't, and none of this halfway crap. For one thing, it is extremely unfair to those of us who have spent the time and money making sure their cars are legal for their class to have someone come in who makes no effort to comply and instead puts their racing budget into making the car faster instead of making it legal. I would personally probably overlook someone who is is just starting out for minor infractions, especially if they were unaware of them, but would expect that the problems be corrected in a timely manner once they were pointed out.

Also, Solo Prepared is not at all the same as Solo Street Prepared, and there is no TT class for Prepared.

Grace
Rick Kase
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:17 pm

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by Rick Kase »

Good post Grace

One of the basics to remember when researching a class listing. Each class gives a standard and it gives items that may be modified (added/removed). "if an item is not listed as being allowed to be modified if cannot be modified.

Rick Kase
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

I think we already proved that a tech inspector should not always be believed also.

And yes i'm fully aware what solo prepared class is. Thats my point! Use them. It would make everything easier. And hell we already have a bizillion classes so who cares.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
dspgti
Novice
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 7
Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

[quote="jerdeitzel"]Kill switch is listed under 10.24. of the TTR[/quote

10.24. MASTER SWITCH
It is highly recommended that all cars be equipped with a master switch easily accessible from outside the car. For any purpose built race car the master kill switch is required
(e.g. – any GCR class car unless otherwise specified as exempt in the current
GCR.)

The master switch shall be installed directly in either battery cable and shall
cut all electrical circuits but not an on-board fire system. All terminals of the master switch shall be insulated to prevent
shorting out. It shall be clearly marked by the international marking of a spark in a blue triangle and mounted in a standard
location. Off position shall be clearly indicated at the master switch location.
dspgti
Novice
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:35 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 7
Current Racecar: ITC Rabbit, G/Prod Rabbit, H/Prod Scirocco, GTL Rabbit, TR4, Formula SAE
Location: Reading, PA/ Hammonton, NJ

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by dspgti »

The dumbest thing about all this arguing about what class could have been solved with deleting the interior rules from Street Prepared or Street Mod. Having flammable material inside of a race car is absolutly ludicris (I'm sure I mispelled that one).

Just delete the stupid interior rules and be done with it. Like it really makes a competitive advantage. :roll:

Dave Y
User avatar
gdh57
Site Admin
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by gdh57 »

A few hundred pounds less weight is not a competitive advantage? Wow, who would have thought????

Grace
User avatar
gdh57
Site Admin
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by gdh57 »

jerdeitzel wrote:I think we already proved that a tech inspector should not always be believed also.
"We" did no such thing. You may have proved that someone who has volunteered to help out with tech inspection at events (and thank you for your efforts) does not have answers at his fingertips, but he is not and has not claimed to be chief of tech.

I have yet to see a post by Kurt on this topic, and I suspect he has the good sense not to post here. SVTFocus, Kurt is extremely responsive to emails, and any safety questions you still have should be directed to him (or national) and not at random to this forum.

Grace
jerdeitzel
Novice
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Very interested in getting behind the wheel!

Post by jerdeitzel »

gdh57 wrote:
jerdeitzel wrote:I think we already proved that a tech inspector should not always be believed also.
"We" did no such thing. You may have proved that someone who has volunteered to help out with tech inspection at events (and thank you for your efforts) does not have answers at his fingertips, but he is not and has not claimed to be chief of tech.

I have yet to see a post by Kurt on this topic, and I suspect he has the good sense not to post here. SVTFocus, Kurt is extremely responsive to emails, and any safety questions you still have should be directed to him (or national) and not at random to this forum.

Grace
Grace, with all due respect. That is the most basic thing a tech inspector should kno. (and yes still a big thank to anyone that helps to do things, I'm not a dick!). He signed the post as a tech inspector. In your big post you state that he should listen to a tech inspector, not the Cheif of tech. Where would that have gotten him?

FWIW, I have put on a few SCCA Time trial event in the past few years. I do have some clue as to what is going on.

FWIW, everyone is a doing this to help. Nobody has all the answers, even Kurt. I have been teched and had to educate people a few times. Dont turn this into more drama then it is. Were discussing things that cuase problems for newcomers and are trying to talk about solutions. You jumped on a statement about not following rules bu,t if you read carfully. I don't see anyone saying not to follow the ruless.
#88 SM
Mitsubishi evo 8
Post Reply