2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Talk about Hill Climb events here and watch this site for any last minute changes to the schedule.

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Nelson
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2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Nelson »

Online registration will open on 4/27 at:

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frm ... t_id=15483

Event Questions: Rich Rock rikrock@live.com
Registration Questions: Nancy Lewis n.lewis6@comcast.net
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Rich Sweigart »

I have noticed something in the supps (also in the Jefferson supps) that the Novice meeting is 7 pm Friday night. Since I am considered a novice again by the rules, I find that a bit of a hardship since I work in construction and most times I am lucky to make back to my house by 6pm or later; I doubt that I can make any Friday night meeting and no, taking days off is not an option. ????
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

Rich

It has been in previous supps that novices must present themselves and thier cars on Friday. I've moved the novice meeting to Friday night in order to decrease the time needed for novice instruction and/or information on Saturday morning. I feel this will allow time to answer questions, maybe watch an in-car vid or 2 and give commentary if needed.
I'd like to reserve Saturday morning for a quick ride up the hill(as we've done in the past) and a touring run.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Rich Sweigart »

Steve,

I understand the rules, this is not my first rodeo. In construction, you take a day off, you might as well look for another job. We always did novice meeting on Saturday morning because isn't enough to try and tow a car to the event, register, and go thru tech on Friday night. Since, you feel so, strongly about this and since I can not make the meetings, I will find another place to play; that will be hard to do since my family has been hillclimbing since 1961. Sorry, to rough up any feathers but, if I am going to choose between taking care of my family and my hobby, family wins out.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

First of all, I'm a union carpenter(and have been so since 1988).

That said, I'm willing to give you the novice meeting later Friday night. Registration closes at 9 so you should be able to get registered and do the novice meeting.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Sue Salsburg »

Steve - we can't afford to turn away drivers by being rigid. PHA has always been "driver friendly" as opposed to SCCA road racing. Special situations can always be accommodated. We've had lots of novices show up Saturday morning & the world hasn't ended. And Rich, of all people, is hardly a novice who is going to be a stupid show-off on his first run. Sue
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by gdh57 »

Steve,

I agree with Sue. While at the same time -- I understand what you are trying to do, and also think it's great that you want to expand on the amount of training / info a novice gets.

But some novices are just not going to be able to make it there by 7 PM. It's already hard to get into this form of racing, especially for someone on a budget who is not sure they even will like it. Couldn't the supps at least include a note that if the mandatory Fri night meeting is an issue, the person can contact the chief of novices to discuss an exception?

I'd rather spend the time Sat AM for the meeting rather than lose new drivers.

Grace
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by FV95 »

I understand the purpose of Friday night Novice training. On the other hand, we have a good thing going in the PHA, we should be very careful how we change things. During the years I was Chief Driving Instructor I cannot remember any significant delay due to the novice touring runs. Almost every time, we would finish the meeting and send the novices to get their cars for their touring runs and we had to wait, suited up in the heat often 20 or 30 minutes, to get the hill ready and workers on station. Novices delays are rare. Yes, once they get the touring run is
underway, there is a minor delay for 2 driver cars. I really like the idea of coming to the meeting suited up. I have mixed emotions about Friday night mandatory training....we should offer it, but be flexible for those who cannot make it. John
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by SteveTC »

Steve,

I had a similar inquiry about Friday night from 2 novices that will not be able to get to Jefferson until late and were wondering how rigid we were going to be.
I told them I would ask because they said it may affect whether they register it or not. Technically at Jefferson, isn't everyone a novice in this direction? These are 2 guys like Rich who have run with us for many years but right now are novices...

Steve
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by DaveM »

SteveTC wrote:Steve,

I had a similar inquiry about Friday night from 2 novices that will not be able to get to Jefferson until late and were wondering how rigid we were going to be.
I told them I would ask because they said it may affect whether they register it or not. Technically at Jefferson, isn't everyone a novice in this direction? These are 2 guys like Rich who have run with us for many years but right now are novices...

Steve

Hi,

We ran this direction with the extension last fall.

Cheers
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by SteveTC »

DaveM wrote:
SteveTC wrote:Steve,

I had a similar inquiry about Friday night from 2 novices that will not be able to get to Jefferson until late and were wondering how rigid we were going to be.
I told them I would ask because they said it may affect whether they register it or not. Technically at Jefferson, isn't everyone a novice in this direction? These are 2 guys like Rich who have run with us for many years but right now are novices...

Steve

Hi,

We ran this direction with the extension last fall.

Cheers
I thought we run the other direction in the fall.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Greghagan »

Dave is correct.

This years Spring Jefferson is listed as going counterclockwise, same as last fall. Perhaps an issue, safety or otherwise, with going clockwise.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

Not sure why I'm not receiving notifications of further replies.....hmm.

I'm at work ATM so hold on and I'll respond.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

As has been done for the past 2 years that I've been doing this, any novices who cannot make it to the hill Friday night, should contact me directly. Accommodations have been, and will be made.

My contact info is:
mdbug6@comcast.net
610-608-3977

I encourage all novices with any questions to contact me.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by SteveTC »

Steve,

I passed on your info.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Mark Aubele »

I think we should get rid of novice runs altogether, waste of time.

As Steve said, he has been very accommodating, all it takes is a phone call like the one I made to him explaining I may not be able to make it until late Friday. No need to throw a public fit on an Internet forum.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by gdh57 »

Steve:

Thanks for the clarification. It was unclear from the event entry form that exceptions were possible. I hope a way is found to make this clear on the event form since novices are, by definition, new (for the most part), and may not read this forum. I just looked at the entry form again and your contact information is not on it.

I am assuming the Friday night meeting is intended to cover more than you usually do in the AM, and that is a great idea. However, I hope you don't eliminate the ride up the hill. I personally found that to be very valuable when I was a novice and brand new to a course -- not only for some insight into the turns, but for information on turn around, etc. Also, it seems a bit unreasonable to ask the novices to be suited and in their cars by 8 AM when they won't be able to drive up the hill for their touring runs until after the workers are in place around 9 AM. I'm just thinking about how miserable that will be in August!

Mark:

I disagree that novice touring runs are a waste of time, and do not mind the extra time they take on Saturday morning. But I am just one person, just like you are just one person. If you feel that strongly, perhaps you should attend a PHA meeting where business discussions are held and propose a rule change (ETA, you know, instead of pitching a fit on a public forum ;) ).

Grace
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

Grace,
I don't think that novice instructor contact info has been on any entry forms. But I think it should be considered in the future.


For the rest of the readers:
The Friday night meetings were something I brought up in the PHA meeting at the banquet. I also spoke to people about it for about 1/2 the race year last year. NOBODY thought it was a bad idea. So I ran with it, and started thinking about some ideas of how to handle it.

Novices(on ALL entry forms) either MUST or MANDITORY, be at the hill for registration and tech on Friday night. I went and looked at entry forms back to 2011 and it's on every one. That said, it's a 15 minute process to register and tech. My thought was to give novices an additional purpose to be there other than just register and tech. The meeting was to be able to give a more comprehensive discussion about the event and the hill. I bounced around some ideas of running in-car of that specific hill and discussion of turns. Consideration was given to the fact that questions could be asked without slowing down the event on Saturday morning and additional time can be devoted to race discussion as well.
The 7:00 time was just a start. I had hoped to see how that worked out with the majority of people and tweek as we go. If I received feedback saying it was too early or too late, I could have adjusted the start time. This probably would have taken a few events to work out and may have even been an event specific time. New initiatives usually take time to sort out some bugs.

Saturday morning was to be reserved for a quick safety refresher. After the refresher, a ride up the hill as usual and then the touring run. The ride up the hill could now be given a longer discussion time span at certain corners that need warnings and special notes. And the tourning run could go as always. I felt that this format could help break up the amount of info needed to be presented on Saturday morning.

The assumption was that anyone who couldn't comply with the manditory novice requirements, would take the time to call or email me to make other arrangments. For those of you who didn't know, I gave a one on one novice meeting to a guy last year on Friday night. He was unable to participate on Saturday. On Sunday morning, I met with him quickly to refresh safety. He ran on Sunday only with NO incident.
It is HIGHLY recommended that problems with attending novice meetings NOT be posted on a forum. You'll be better served to contact me directly and we can discuss alternatives so I can try to help you. The only reason I saw this post was because I received a msg from someone telling me that there was a question here on the board. I don't look at the board on a daily basis.

Hopefully this clarifies the idea for a Friday night meeting. Where it goes from here is up in the air.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by Matt Rowe »

I don't have a lot of time right now so I'll be brief.

The Chief Steward of the event in combination with the Event Chair are responsible for setting the event schedule as they are collectively responsible for the overall operation of the event. Changing the schedule without the direct agreement of those two officials is a concern. I did have concerns about changing the weekend schedule and considering that I was behind standardizing the schedule to minimize the confusion that used to exist from event to event I have a vested interest in this.

The reason that we instituted mandatory Friday registration for novices was to deal with the complexities of issuing memberships, licenses and completing registration forms for people brand new. For novices with all the proper credentials in place and straightforward registration I had no problem granting waivers upon request but admittedly that was rare. Keep in mind that with a long line of drivers and a novice that had none of the necessary paperwork it frequently resulted in novices being late to meetings and novice runs.

Speaking of novice runs the reason we still have them, albeit in a much simpler and faster format is twofold. First, due to a few instances of novices not following all of the procedures (for example nearly causing a collision at turnaround) it gives the novices a chance to observe the course truck (or the following cars) performing the full process. Secondly it's the first time we get to see novices fully dressed and belted in where we can do a double check on just the novices.

Lastly, how will the tour of the hill be accomplished on Friday evening with the road still open? That's a significant safety concern, particularly on a high traffic road like Giant's.

I appreciate everyone's interest in trying to continuously improve the events but I'm not bought into this change and I'm extremely unhappy to see Weatherly's schedule changed without my input.
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Re: 2015 Pagoda Hillclimb

Post by mrevilracing »

Matt

I think this is better discussed off line. Give me a call when you get a chance.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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