Jefferson Expansion

[Rich Rock]

I have been informed that Summit Point Motorsports Park has posted something on their Facebook page (some of you may be familiar with Facebook, I understand it is very popular), including a video of the new layout. I was there Thanksgiving weekend and had a chance to walk it, the paving was too fresh at the time to allow cars on it.

[Mazdahead]

Look here for the video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152175679666282

[dspgti]

WOW, now that is race course worth running!

Dave Y

[gdh57]

It was always worth running!

But even more importantly, I heard rumors they were adding electric in the pits and showers! Not sure if the rumors are true or not...

[ktaggart]

Does anyone know what course we will be running this year?

Ken

[Rich Rock]

Assuming the course gets SCCA approval, and assuming the track holds to its promise not to raise the rental fee for this year, and assuming we can get enough corner workers, which version would everyone prefer?

If we offered only two hot laps per session on the 1.6 mile layout instead of three on the 1.1 mile layout, which would you prefer?

[Mwilson]

I would assume that if you decide to run the long version the old records would be retired. Lets say they do keep the price the same this year but up the price for future events what are you going to do? Do you go back to the smaller version and start all over again with records? Or what happens if you have plenty of workers the first year due to the excitement of a longer course and then the next year that excitement is gone. Just some food for thought. For me I probably have the only car that was build specifically to run the hills now that George's car is gone. Very small fuel capacity, etc. I would only be able to run one lap which really translates to two after you get the checkered. So from a dollar and cents standpoint not a good investment for me. So count me out. I am probably the only person in the organization that feels this way. I fully understand why everyone else would want to run the longer version and if I had a car that could do both the hills and tracks, I would be right with you. This decision may well help me make my mind up on something I have been contemplating all Winter. At least I will be able to watch the 500 live

[Nelson]

As far as I'm concerned, there will be 2 sets of records, short course and long course. Which ever course that is in use that's the records that would be used.

[Mwilson]

That makes perfect sense to me Nelson. That's why you make the BIG BUCKS!

[Wizco]

Assuming the course gets SCCA approval, and assuming the track holds to its promise not to raise the rental fee for this year, and assuming we can get enough corner workers, which version would everyone prefer?

If we offered only two hot laps per session on the 1.6 mile layout instead of three on the 1.1 mile layout, which would you prefer?

2 hot laps of the long course is preferable to 3 hot laps on the short course for me.

(But 3 on the long course would be even better)

[Mazdahead]

I might have to add extra cooling to run 3 laps on the long course.
I was sort of marginal with 3 laps on the short course.
I would assume there are others that have their cars set up specifically for the hills?
These folks should probably assess what would work better for them.

[dspgti]

I vote for open practice, 15 minutes, limited passing. Use transponders, group by speed, 1 timed session at the end of each day, 3 Hot laps. Allow cars that can't do 3 hot laps to run twice at the end time allowing.

Or, run both courses as seperate events. Short course first day, have some attrition, long second day. Single trophy total time overall.

Just ideas,
Dave Y

[gdh57]

I vote for open practice, 15 minutes, limited passing. Use transponders, group by speed, 1 timed session at the end of each day, 3 Hot laps. Allow cars that can't do 3 hot laps to run twice at the end time allowing.

Or, run both courses as seperate events. Short course first day, have some attrition, long second day. Single trophy total time overall.

Just ideas,
Dave Y

You are assuming that the course is equipped for transponders, which it currently isn't but maybe they will change this in the new track (but it would mean moving the start/ finish line to somewhere on the new track). And also that the timing system we have can handle timing via transponders, which it can't. And also, that all of our members already have transponders or are willing to spend the money on transponders, which is also not the case the last time it was brought up -- yes there are rentals available via OG Racing on the main track, but not enough for everyone. Last, I seem to remember that the SCCA has not approved this track for passing, but I could have that wrong.

Minor details.

[dspgti]

The main purpose of the transponders was to get initial times to group cars by similar speed. The longer track would probably lead to more overtaking occurances. Forget that idea.

I think it was the TT stewards that felt the track wasnt wide enough for passing. I too am not sure of that. It would be easy to check with the DC Region to see if that is the case.

Dave Y

[Nelson]

Five or six years ago, we asked the drivers at one of the Jefferson events which they would prefer, all day practice with one or two timed sessions or all day timed sessions. Almost all of the drivers wanted to do it the way we are doing it now. Most of the hillclimb competitors want as many timed runs as they can get.

[dspgti]

Oh Im just trying to be my old aggitating self. I spoke to many drivers years ago and they expressed the same feelings. However, they never tried the other format either. I remember a few years back, several PHA drivers came to NJMP to help with their PDX. Those that drove it said they had a blast. My reason for bringing it up was to get away from the silly parade laps at the start of the event. Heck, it's been so long since I was at one, I dont know if you do that anymore.

Anyway, my only idea that I thought had some merit was doing both courses. What do you think about that one?

Dave Y

[gdh57]

Oh Im just trying to be my old aggitating self. I spoke to many drivers years ago and they expressed the same feelings. However, they never tried the other format either. I remember a few years back, several PHA drivers came to NJMP to help with their PDX. Those that drove it said they had a blast. My reason for bringing it up was to get away from the silly parade laps at the start of the event. Heck, it's been so long since I was at one, I dont know if you do that anymore.

Anyway, my only idea that I thought had some merit was doing both courses. What do you think about that one?

Dave Y

I totally agree that it would be fun to run the full new course if we can, even if it means a few less laps. Do you know what the new distance is? For cars set up for the hills only, I think it is about the same as Duryea?

Also, I re-read my reply and it was quite negative wasn't it -- sorry about that, didn't mean to be rude.

What I meant to say is that from a practical standpoint, I'm pretty sure that Jefferson does not have whatever it needs to have embedded in the track for transponders. Nelson would know better than me. And we would need a completely different timing system (not to mention transponders in every car).

So right now, the only way we have to do timing is one car at a time. Not that this can't change, just not easily. And there were a lot of drivers upset about having to purchase a transponder. OG Racing does rent them, but it is $50 / weekend.

Aside from the timing issues, which we could resolve with money, there is also the safety issue.

I fully enjoyed doing several PDX event in my car with DC region on the main track, but passing was limited to certain areas with a point by. If we do this for our events, we are going to upset drivers who got slow times because they were stuck behind someone. Passing anywhere? Well, in road racing, at least you are grouped with like cars (more or less). And also, presumably, everyone on track has been through driver's school and (also presumably) knows how to behave with others on track.

I also do remember talking to someone who said that SCCA PDX's weren't done on Jefferson because it wasn't approved for passing. I don't remember who, and I could be wrong.

[dspgti]

Grace, I thought your original reply was contructive, not negative.

Passing in any SCCA Time Trial would be only designated straights (front and back straights at Jefferson) with a point by. Believe me this is not a panacia. I have done many events as an instructor and you always get behind someone who is fast on the straights and slow in the turns. They don't give you point bys unless there is an experienced instructor telling them to do so. These laps are only for practice, instruction, warm up, familiarization, whatever. Timed runs are always solo, just fewer.

Again, I haven't been around for a while but my guess is that many new incoming drivers have already done these types of track events.

Dave Y

[Rich Rock]

We stopped doing touring laps years ago, with one exception. Novices do them as part of their orientation.

The overwhelming majority of our drivers are not interested in changing the format we use at Jefferson. While there are opportunities to participate in Time Trials where passing is allowed with other regions or clubs, very few of our members ever do.

In fact, from what I've seen over the past several years, attendance at those events is not all that great. Nowhere near the 60-70-some cars we regularly get at Jefferson. Rather than us changing our format to be more like them, maybe they should try to be more like us?

I suppose it's all academic anyhow, since passing zones were never approved by SCCA at Jefferson.

It's been almost two weeks since I asked which layout everyone prefers to run at Jefferson. The 1.1 mile short course or the 1.6 mile long course. Very few people have responded, and I don't know how to interpret that lack of response. Please, it would be helpful to know what you prefer. If you don't want to state your preference on this forum, just send me a PM.

[ktaggart]

Rich,

I did not realize you were waiting for a response. I definitely vote for the long course. Since this will be my first and last year in the new P1 class, I would love a crack at the longer course, especially counterclockwise in the Fall.

Ken