Mt Philo Hillclimb October 16-17 2010, Vermont.

[sachilles]

Hopefully this is OK to post here, as I don't believe it conflicts with your schedule this year. We'd certainly love to have some of you folks come up for a visit. You can't beat the scenery from Philo. This is the shortest hill in our series, and one of the smoothest, though it may be a little more narrow than some of you are accustomed to.
1.1 miles, last year the average time was 1:17.92. To give you a baseline, Butch king ran a 1:10.85, FTD was 1:04.86 by Sherman Baumann(who I believe has visited for a couple of climbs this year). Last year we did 6 runs on saturday, and a severe wreck on Sunday shortened the day to only 4 runs. We sincerely hope you can join us either as a driver or as a volunteer.

Just a quick heads up that the Mt. Philo Hillclimb is approaching. This is an all tarmac climb. In addition to the normal hillclimb classes, we'll have the newly added rally class that is part of the Rally America regional championship.
Visit http://www.hillclimb.org for additional information like rules, classifications and the like. Camping is available on site at an additional charge. Night life at the hill is part of the fun. There are several area hotels, but if that is your plan, book your room as soon as your able. The event is during foliage season and the hotels tend to max out.
You can run with a non-caged car, but you are subject to a break out time. Carnage can happen, so be advised to drive within your limits, or risk real damage to your car.
I'll post a note when registration officially opens. We are using motorsports reg this year for entries, allowing you to pay with your credit/debit card.

In car video's of past years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfQCAdcv ... r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWK7IS8pUgo
Carnage can happen(he was able to fix this in about a week and run at NHMS)



This is a fun event, and final climb of the 2010 season.
Not sure if this event is for you? Come volunteer to work a day or the weekend. You'll get up close exposure to the event, free lunch, and when the hill is closed, tasty adult beverages. This is not an overly spectator friendly event, the best way to see the action is to work a check point. No prior experience necessary.

[sachilles]

http://forums.sccv.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3312
Registration link.

[georgebowland]

Too bad youfolks don't accept SCCA legal Time Trial/Hillclimb open wheel cars. Every other hillclimb organization in the country does as well as the Canadians for their Knox Mountain Hillclimb. Seems if PHA, NHA, The Southern Hillclimbs, and Canada are Ok with SCCA rules, you folks might consider joining the group. I'm sure that would help entries to rise, but of course that may not be your goal.
George

[sdwarf36]

Too bad youfolks don't accept SCCA legal Time Trial/Hillclimb open wheel cars. Every other hillclimb organization in the country does as well as the Canadians for their Knox Mountain Hillclimb. Seems if PHA, NHA, The Southern Hillclimbs, and Canada are Ok with SCCA rules, you folks might consider joining the group. I'm sure that would help entries to rise, but of course that may not be your goal.
George

I think the break down of what is legal in our rules vs the rest is it seems to me that timetrial/ hillclimb cars elsewhere pretty much mimic autocross rules--where the worse case scenerio is hitting cones-where ours were written by rally car people who have seen the damage of cars vs. trees at hi rates of speed-head on-side impact-rollover etc. (you want to vouch for SCCA rules with an uncaged 500hp Evo setting FTD 'cause it fits in a autocross class? )

Philo would be perfect for your car--its smooth as can be-1 mile and only 17 turns--and the record is there for the taking (I think I'm only like 3 seconds off.) The road is probably no more than 10 ft wide in sections (but hey-how wide is any good racing line?) with trees right up to the edge-but we have full sized asphalt modifieds run it.

If you are interested in running it, send some pics of you car to walterclark1@comcast.net or shelbyeast@aol.com (our tech guys) and you can find our rules at www.hillclimb.org. They can tell you whats needed--you might not be too far off.

[sachilles]

As Sherman mentioned, the rally heritage is strong within our organization. So it's no surprise to find it's rules have similar roots. I would echo Sherman's suggesting of contacting our tech folks listed above.
Neha is formed by 3 member clubs, of which we all share the same insurance carrier. So as a results we have a yearly meeting to discuss rule proposals and the like. At that time members can propose new rules etc, of which then they can be voted on. Rules seldom change unless there is an issue at the fore front of the members minds.

I guess what I'm getting at, is if you(or anyone else) are geniunely interesting in giving Philo(or any other NEHA hill) a try, let us see if we can make something work that can make everyone happy.
I can also ask some questions on your behalf if you like, but a few detailed pictures of your car as it currently sits, and what you use for safety equipment would certainly help to explain the request.

[georgebowland]

Sherman,
I have read the rules and also seen the Jerry Kieft Bandit after it was modified to meet your rules. Don't know if was ever actually run through the tech group, but the bar installed around the nose and back to the main roll structure would have induced a basial skull fracture in any crash above 10 mph due to the rigidity. It has since been removed by the new owner, Ted Theodore, in the interest of safety.

I won't argue the issue of the autocross cars, as the new all wheel drive turbo cars are extremely fast. My car is a an SCCA GCR legal roll cage for formula cars, the standard that has been in use for many years. It would require a complete redesign to meet your rules. All hillclimbs have trees and many like Chimney Rock and Knox Mountain have a 50 year record of great safety under the SCCA rules. The only fatality I know of in the US in the 29 years I have been doing this was last year at Crow Mountain, AL, and involved a fully caged Camaro GT-1/SPO car.

Since I have not seen your hills, my opinion is not of much value. But I have seen 17 other hills around the country, and they all have the same basic problem of not being a particularly safe place to race. I guess I favor the SCCA rules simply because of the very good safety record I have witnessed over the past 29 seasons. But then I race a 750 # car that runs at least 100 mph on every hill I drive, so how smart can I be???
George

[jerdeitzel]

That ftd EVO is only 400 hp! . Boy I wonder how fast I will be at 500?

I'm okay being referenced in the whole cage point but, you guys do let cars run your hills without a cage up to a certain time. Why is that much different then what we do with SCCA? Something could happen with those cars and hit the same trees.

I do plan on caging my car and will visit you guys up there soon.

[mrevilracing]

Just out of curiosity, what is the break out time at Mt Philo?

I would say that there are many cars that are SCCA approved that I don't feel are 'safe' for hillclimbing in a serious wreck. Mine included.

There has been at least 1 death in somewhat recent history in our series. There was a guy at Weatherly, if I am not mistaken.
On June 26 of this year there was a death at the Spectre 341 hillclimb. http://www.vividracing.com/forums/gener ... video.html I can't find any follow up info on the cause of death - i.e. equipment failure or other.

[sdwarf36]

That ftd EVO is only 400 hp! . Boy I wonder how fast I will be at 500?

I'm okay being referenced in the whole cage point but, you guys do let cars run your hills without a cage up to a certain time. Why is that much different then what we do with SCCA? Something could happen with those cars and hit the same trees.

I do plan on caging my car and will visit you guys up there soon.

Well turn that sucker up! We got some serious boost junkies up here. (My sig line on hillclimb.org :If God wanted you to have 30 lbs of boost, he would have made atmospheric pressure 44.7 )
Some think that every car that hillclimbs should have a cage - but then came to the realization that its unrealistic to tell some newbie they have to a cage just to see if its something you want to do. They try it + like it-then the 1st place you SHOULD put money is safety.
It took YEARS to get both side of the cage/no cage argument to finally compromise and move on. The break out time is what did it. On our time print outs, the program figures out what the "average" time for the hill is-from FTD to slowest. This seems to remain pretty consistant over the years. This was the number we picked to use. And it has worked out well-the average newb with a slightly built Subbie is usually a few seconds shy of the time after his 1st weekend. If you break out once, you're warned-2nd break out you can't come back till you have a cage.
It might not be perfect-but it's a start.

[sdwarf36]

Just out of curiosity, what is the break out time at Mt Philo?

I would say that there are many cars that are SCCA approved that I don't feel are 'safe' for hillclimbing in a serious wreck. Mine included.

There has been at least 1 death in somewhat recent history in our series. There was a guy at Weatherly, if I am not mistaken.
On June 26 of this year there was a death at the Spectre 341 hillclimb. http://www.vividracing.com/forums/gener ... video.html I can't find any follow up info on the cause of death - i.e. equipment failure or other.

1:20. From watching how much you get out of your car, I'd bet by the end of the weekend you'd be around 1:12-1:15. ( I FTD'd last year with a 1:04)

[McDallion]

I am not writing this as a criticism of anything written above.
On 8 October, 1989 we had a driver fatally injured at Weatherly Hill Climb. He was driving an ex Corvette Cup car in ASP. There was a full cage. He was new to the car and to the hill. His last time was a 106.656. The crash started at just over 100 mph. The car took a tree on the driver's corner of the cage and the cage failed. The driver, whom I did not know, was Martin Hynes. It was an unutterably sad occasion. Lynne was Chief Steward and attended the funeral. I was told she maintained contact with Marty's widow. He was not some guy. I think his was the third fatality at one of our events.
Different people who were there or not there have criticized various aspects of the situation over the years. Everyone there was just trying to have a fun event and had to deal with the outcome. Some people still have to deal with the outcome.

Don

[mrevilracing]

Don - please note: My comment regarding equipment failure was directed at the Spectre 341 incident. I know OF the Weatherly incident, but have no detailed knowledge of it. And I am not looking for any either.

I'd love to come run Philo. However, with a motor that is ready to explode at the next 6500 rpm run, it probably isn't a good idea to do anything but have the car sit there and look pretty. As a matter of fact, its just parked and needs a wash. I am just lazy at the moment.
Running Philo would be cool. The tight road would be a blast to attack. The hill and I would have quite a discussion on the way up. It would laugh and I would burn it up.

[sachilles]

Break out is 1:20 at Philo.
I took a new to me car, that wasn't caged yet to philo last year. It was my first opportunity to compete there, though I've doing various auto events for the last decade or more.
In my 99 subi 2.5 rs as was able to get to the break out by the end of the first day. Car had 5 year old azenis, coilovers, but otherwise bone stock. I'm sure I'd have been in the same boat with a stock wrx. Certainly still fast enough to have fun, but did have to ratchet it back a touch. Certainly can be a challenge to try to get the fastest time possible, without breaking out.
Anything that is 4 cylinders and N/A and 2wd, somewhat near stock, would have to drive darn well to best the break out time.
It's still an evolving rule, and we are trying make sure the intent of it is followed even when folks try to take advantage of it. Even with it, folks can get in wrecks causing damage to themselves as well as their cars.

Safety is an ever present theme in the motorsports community. Certainly there is an inherent risk it what we do, combine it with how sue happy this country has become, which makes for a volatile mix. I don't think there is an easy answer to the situation unfortunately.

As I mentioned above, we can certainly look into what it would take to make our safety folks happy relative to cars like Mr. Bowlands. We haven't had the demand prior(most likely because the rules precluded the cars). So without anyone pushing for it, nothing has happened. I can't guarantee a change or an exemption, but I can certainly help get the conversation started.
Certainly any links to the appropriate safety spec would be an imense help.

Back to the topic at hand. Might we see any of you? Registration is open.
http://forums.sccv.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3312

[Mwilson]

I e-mailed your person in charge and sent a few pictures of my car explaining that it has run the hills in Pa. and meets or exceeds the SCCA GCR safety requirements. His answer was absolutely not! If it doesn't have a "FULL CAGE" it can't run. Plus there were requirements about having a "HORN" I'm not sure if that pertains to a formula car or not. I went to the web site and read all the requirements in the sups. and I would say that very few if any of our open wheel drivers would qualify. And only a hand full of our other drivers would qualify. Next season I was planning on running some hills down South and up North but I guess I can cross the ones in New England off my list. Rules are Rules and they have there's and we have ours.

[sachilles]

The horn requirement is for this reason and is required for anyone running the hill.
Our workers know to listen during an emergency. Lets say your car has a mechanical between checkpoint 4 and 5. Workers can't see you. They hear you toot the horn twice, it lets them know that you believe yourself to be physically OK(maybe just a mechanical issue with the car). One long horn blast, means you are in bad shape and/or no horn blast means means there is a serious situation. Those that don't have a traditional car or traditional horn in place usually have a portable air horn attached to the car somewhere similar to what you find on a small boat. That's just the quick and dirty explanation.

[sdwarf36]

Rich Rock liked my boat horn so much, he felt compelled to honk it each time I went to the line!
Seth asked over on our email list about the origins of the front hoop rule for formula cars-along with a great history lesson of former formula cars we used to have,here is the story we got: (before my time)

"I do believe that a PHA driver by the name of Floyd Schrameck (sp?){ CORRECTED BY ANOTHER POST -IT WAS RON MORECK} showed up at Okemo with a formula car. I believe he was the one that nearly took his head off during an off course under a cable across the access trail. Which was the incident that prompted the high front hoop requirement, but don't hold me too it."

I remember Rons car-seemed like it would be quite quick -he had terrible luck with it at Mt. Washington the one time I saw.

[mckee]

For any PHA folks who come to New England:

In addition to the horn all cars must have a metal tipped fire extinguisher on board with which to fight any forest fires that may be set. This is in addition to any onboard fire systems that may be fitted. There is also a requirement to carry a large plastic sheet or bag to place under the car should it begin to leak liquids during the weekend. Fire retardent gloves and balaclavas are now required in open cars, and must be worn both up and down the hills along with all other safety gear.

Philo is every bit as tough and destructive as Weatherly, except there are no guard rails to keep you out of the trees.

Bob D'Amore