PHA MARKETING

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Mwilson » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:22 pm

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby mrevilracing » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:59 pm

Some of us have been posting stuff on other websites trying to garner some interest in hillclimbing. Adam is on 12 sites. Mark Aubele has posted on several. Sites we have gone to include, racepa, corral, mach1registry, maxima and a slew of others. We're continuing the campaign to build as much interest as possible. But something to understand is that some see the videos we post and actually get scared.
You can have that playing chicken with the trees business. Just give me a race track with some runnoff room and tires to hit. That quote was taken off the corral.net site.

This is serious business. We're promoting ALL aspects of hillclimbing from racing and friends to winning and damage. As far as the fact that you'll have to pay for the guard rail.....Guess I won't be setting any records at Duryea/Pagoda this year, huh? $6k+ to fix the car and actually should have cost about 2k more. Add that to what it would have cost to have a 3700lb car whack the guard rail...I can only imagine. Morgan, you bring up a good point. Is insurance available for guardrail damage? If so, what would the event coverage be? That cost can be divided up and added into the entry fee, depending upon how much it actually is.

Either way, those of us that are able will continue to promote the PHA and the series in person and online. It's a great bunch of people, regardless of what is discussed on the forum. Even Dave was safe at the banquet. We aren't that bad!
RIP Joe, my friend.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby jerdeitzel » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:01 pm

Cumberland Racer wrote:Good ideas, all! OK, here are the unpaid channels we need hit first, I think:

1) Develop a slightly customized "media advisory" in the form of a 500 - 700 word article customized to the media outlet, several of our best images showing cars on course and friends in the pits and a "backgrounder" with history highlights and website URL info "to learn more". SportsCar, Vintage Racer, Grassroots Motorsports and SCCA regional publications are the primary targets. Although the hill climb series history and spirit is great copy and the angle that hill climbing has been of the one form of motorsport most impervious to technology (as evidenced by some of the very long standing hill records) is very good, it's probably not worth the trouble to try and sell an article into Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile, etc, IMO. I DO think, however, we might sell our way into a mention for our schedule announcement on Wind Tunnel as Dave Despain seems to like niche motorsports.

2) When and if good overview on-line videos are available, volunteer shills (I mean supporters) need to ping into the various other specialty motor sports forum we all frequent and share the announcement that the PHA schedule has been announced for 2009 and 2010. As advocates, we can fly under the radar of commercial content or competing events in most forums, I think....at least long enough to get our info out.

More soon, paying work calls.


I think the media advisory is a great idea. If you look at Redline time attack, they have just about hit every site i've ever been on. And they are increasing attendance every year.

I also think Tom has a few good points about where to get drivers. First and formost it seems like friends or people you can talk with personally works the best. Also, i agree that all the time attack, NASA TT and the likes are a great place to get drivers. The biggest issue i can see is the saftey requirments for hillclimbs vs. (most other TT's). Most of those other organizations will let you run without a roll bar or cage. I understand that we are just following what the SCCA requires for us but, its actually something i believe they need to address if they want to tap the market for these kind of events. Yes i said it! And no i don't want to even tarnish this thread with the subject. Just my take on it.

Morg, You are right on many levels. People do need to realize tho, that this is a forum and this crap goes on in most of them. Take it from someone who was almost turned off myself from my first experience here!

One other thing. I'm always hearing that the road racers think we are nuts or somthing of that sort. Well i believe some of that is also the $ vs seat time. If you look at it in terms of price vs value of seat time, i believe we come in much lower then RR and other forms of TT"s. We need to sell the whole experience, history, and just outright fun of the hills vs running a road course.
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Cumberland Racer » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:36 am

Jeremy's on the money on several big points.

1) The longest way here is to start with an interest and build or buy a car to the needed spec, the shortest route to a PHA starting line is to have a legal car used for club racing and decide to come out and give this a try, IMO.

2) Hill climbing is not for everybody, but you need to make your case to all the target groups of prospects all the time.

3) Tom accurately shares the goal. It is not to get EVERY track guy or upgrade EVERY solo driver...but rather to gain 20 more entries at each event. Those 20 guys, if we get them, could be three co-drivers recruited by PHA buddies to give it try in their car, six guys who've been dormant for a couple seasons but somebody reached out to them to come back, four NASA dudes who read about it on-line, two PCA guys banned by their 13-13 rule, etc. The Great Wall of China was built one brick at time, just like the little brick patio my back yard, but they stayed at it for a couple centuries.

4) Credible personal testimony about the fun, the affordability and the tradition is the best way to encourage a car person to come out for a hill climb. Why do you think the Swiffer people spend all that money on imaginary housewives who push their broom around in perfect model homes wearing pearls and Martha Stewart outfits? "Good enough for them, good enough for me" still sells, even in today's sophisticated consumer world.

5) We are selling social recreation and participatory entertainment to car guys, bad girls and speed freaks.

All good. Will have time this weekend to draft up a couple releases based on the ideas shared here.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby mrevilracing » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:04 am

How's this for an idea....a RUN WHAT YA BRUNG class. This is a class for those that want to try out the PHA. There's no real competition so no rules have to be adheared to except the safety rules(bar/cage/harnesses/fire suit etc). A certificate of participation is given in lieu of a trophy and there's no 1st, 2nd or 3rd place. On the certificate would be the PHA logo, the event, date and best time of the day. It gets mailed to the entrant, or if there is a way to print on-site.

Maybe a promotional rate is considered for this class and new people can run a maximum of 2 events. Registration and tech are the same as a regular PHA participant. And as discussed in another thread, a mentour - so to speak, is assigned.

Why is this relative to the marketing idea? Because instead of attempting to get drivers to adhear to some specific class rules right off the bat, just get them into the event. From there, the discussion of classes and rules can start. From my own experience, when I 1st saw the PHA online, all I knew was that I wanted to try it. I didn't care about class or whatever. Luckily, I already had the cage and fire suit so that wasn't a concern.
RIP Joe, my friend.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Mr2 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:45 am

Suggestion: For a first-timer, 50% off entry fee.

New England/Killington does this, and it seems to work... I drove there (475 miles)
*side note: (you don't even need a rollbar/cage, provided you don't exceed the "breakout" time). At OKEMO, it's 2:43; I ran 2:51
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby John » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:06 pm

I think there should be a link in the home page for Hill Climbing 101 instead of it being :arrow: shoved into the forum area where most people never go :!:
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby mrevilracing » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:29 pm

Not to be a smart ass or anything but Hillclimbing 101 is under More Information which is on the home page under the 2nd link. Forums are under the 7th link. The Hillclimbing 101, Driver Checklist and Classes links to their respective information is actually pretty good.
RIP Joe, my friend.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Rick Kase » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:50 pm

Hey guys, have you ever looked at the PHA series rules?
The run what you brung class is already there, it is called Special (1, 2 &3) these classes have no class standards, only that the car must meet safety standards.
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby mrevilracing » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:11 pm

Rick Kase wrote:Hey guys, have you ever looked at the PHA series rules?
The run what you brung class is already there, it is called Special (1, 2 &3) these classes have no class standards, only that the car must meet safety standards.
Build what you want and race it.


Rick, you are absolutely right. Safety standards and the sky is the limit on mods.

I guess I was thinking of a class for those that just want to try it out. Where trophies aren't given, just a certificate.
RIP Joe, my friend.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby dspgti » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:34 pm

Actually I was thinking Street Mod is the Run What ya Brung class. Specials, requires a full cage that I for one forgot about. Your idea has some merit but the last thing we want to do is add classes. Maybe if we created an "Undeclared Class", drop the certificate and any other trophy inclusion, simply give credit for an event completed in the novice log book?Here is the down side. An undeclared entry might have modifications that would require additional saftey equipment like full cages, fuel cells etc. So it's back to requiring the car to conform to a Street Legal type class.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Mwilson » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:46 pm

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Mark Aubele » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:37 pm

SM isn't a run what you brung class. We can't run aftermarket k-members or torque arms (the available ones anyway) in that class. It's actually fairly restrictive suspension wise.
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby jerdeitzel » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:05 am

This is a thread about marketing. NOT classing! The big issue is how we get new drivers, the lowest level of car prep is the SP classes. This is where any newcomer will most often be classed, Lets do more to promote how little it takes to make a street car a possible hillclimb car!

Your right Dave, thats what happens with late night posting. :oops: .
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Cumberland Racer » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:01 am

FWIW, I think the field of 2009 hill climb entry prospects falls into three clear categories:

1) People "moving up" from DE or Solo to give it try (SP or SM guys mostly, I think, as Jeremy aptly notes)

2) People with club race legal cars "moving across" for any number of possible reasons and enticements.

3) Inactive hill climbers "coming back" to enter an event or two, or three.....

The outreach needs to have modules in the pitch for each of these three audiences and then be customized to emphasize the best benefits of participation depending on which of these three targets it is aimed at. If PHA hill climbing is "a room in the motorsports house", we need to open as many doors and windows and possible to encourage folks to join us there. Based on the discussions to date, likely a blend of modified policies and increased promotion to prospective groups of enthusiasts.
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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby dspgti » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:43 am

Let's try to keep this a Marketing idea thread. The gaurd rail issue will be posted soon on the "Improved Duryea" thread.

I considered the class issue as Marketing because it has potential to draw new drivers.

So the idea would be an "Undeclared Class" msut be Street Legal, full interiors, DOT etc. and all Necessary Saftey Equipment. They will get timed runs, no trophies. Sounds interesting to me.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Rich Rock » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:18 pm

dspgti wrote:So the idea would be an "Undeclared Class" msut be Street Legal, full interiors, DOT etc. and all Necessary Saftey Equipment. They will get timed runs, no trophies. Sounds interesting to m
Dave Y.


Why? Don't we already have a class for every car? Seems to me the cost of all the safety gear is the major reason more people don't try hillclimbing.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby dspgti » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:07 pm

Rich Rock wrote:
dspgti wrote:So the idea would be an "Undeclared Class" msut be Street Legal, full interiors, DOT etc. and all Necessary Saftey Equipment. They will get timed runs, no trophies. Sounds interesting to m
Dave Y.


Why? Don't we already have a class for every car? Seems to me the cost of all the safety gear is the major reason more people don't try hillclimbing.

Rich Rock


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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby dspgti » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:30 pm

Another way to get Club Racers is to appeal to them to reward their dedicated pit crew members by offering a co-drive.

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Re: PHA MARKETING

Postby Cumberland Racer » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:34 pm

To finish this line of thinking, the idea behind an undeclared class populated with DOT legal cars is to increase hill climbing's appeal to Target Group One ("Move up" enthusiasts many of whom may be autocrossers or track attack guys), right?

This certainly fits the working definition of something that opens the door wider. So nooowwww comes the big dollar consulting fee, brainstorming part of my biz. What do you call it, so it is appealing but doesn't sound outlaw, beginner or like it requires training wheels? Working phrases borrowed from other competition arenas would be words like "Hobby Class", "Sportsman Class", "Novice Class", "Provisional Starters", "Promoters Option", "DOT Class" , "Street Stock".

Does an idea like this hit any walls in the world of SCCA sanction, TT regs or liability?
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