### Roll Cage Setup

Hey, do you have a problem with something on your vehicle? Post the problem here someone may just have the answer for you.

Moderators: Rich Rock, Mazdahead

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sspano01
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Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm
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Current Racecar: 1967 Shelby Cobra Replica
1966 Mustang Convertible
1967 Pontiac GTO

### Roll Cage Setup

Post by sspano01 »

Hello!

I am working on car to hopefully be ready for SCCA Vintage racing and I would love to do some HillClimbs.
Specifically Giants since it is near my old home-town.

The car is a 1967 Pontiac GTO. It should be running and driving in about 3-4 months and painted and "neat-and-clean" hopefully for June. I'd like to run it at Watkins along with my SRF when they do the vintage HRG racing there.

Anyway, I want to make sure the roll-cage setup is correct. I am finalizing a design for a cage now I think I have understood the GCR correctly, but I'd like to verify

This link shows a drawing of basically what I am thinking.

Image
cage-design by sspano01, on Flickr

Some specific questions based on the GCR are

1) full hoop behind the driver and passenger to the roof of the car (2-inch
margin to helmet/etc). Correct?

2) Horizontal brace bar behind the passenger/driver seat for seat bracing and
belt attachment
Question: does this need a lateral support bar here? Running diagonally?

3) Two rear facing support bars from the full hoop to the trunk area

4) Full loop around the roof to the windshield with a "cross brace diagonal"

5) Support bars coming down in front of the windshield/dashboard to the floor.

6) Horizontal brace bar between the front support bars in item 5.
Question: where is a good place to locate such a bar?

7) On the doors. A "x" style brace across both passenger and driver door. Possibly with two plates to "taco" the X together?

8) Some of the drawings show two forward bars going from the support bars in
item #5 to either the firewall and/or through the firewall to the front frame.
Is this required?

My plan would be to run the GTO is the HRG3/HRG5 group or if I am feeling silly at least to have it classed in SPO

I look forward to any suggestions and/or pictures of roll cage setups
SteveTC
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Location: Hunlock Creek, PA 18621

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by SteveTC »

Design looks pretty good. Here are my comments:
1) 2" is mainly for open car, you probably want to get it as close to roof line as possible. Rear hoop should be about 6" behind head when in seated driving position.

2) Yes horizontal is a good idea, just place it at correct height for appropriate seat belt angles so it does not pull down on shoulders in accident. You do need a diagonal brace as well, that is mandatory.

3) Yes, make sure angle is greater than 30 degrees to the upright main hoop

4) Diagonal is not required, but can add lateral strength. Sometime is is tight to helmet though so be careful there.

5) Yes. If stopping at floor, you need welded in plates or bolted top and bottom with staggered size plates. If you go thru to frame like you mentioned, then that will be strong if you can weld all around OK. Also fill in gaps at floor level if needed.

6) If you can mount it at lower dash level it supplies strength to leg area in case of side hit or engine intrusion as long as it s not too low on legs, otherwise at dash height is good.

7) that is a strong design for door bars. front bracing may be restricted by class. Some are acceptable, others are not, you will need to check class specifications.

Not sure of the HRG classes as we do not run them. Our closest are the historic classes in the supplemental rules. I am pretty sure our supplemental rules also state that you cannot run slicks in Historic classes. I was trying to find them but was not having luck. The challenge is always to make sure that your car fits the road race classes but have the updated safety equipment to meet the Time Trial level 4 rules for hill climb.

Let me know if you need any other information.
sspano01
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Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 17
Current Racecar: 1967 Shelby Cobra Replica
1966 Mustang Convertible
1967 Pontiac GTO

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by sspano01 »

Hi!

Thanks for the reply.
I dont plan to run slicks, most likely AVON radials (I run them on my Shelby Cobra replica) and they are about a street legal and close to a slick as you can get, so I should be OK there.

On the frame/plates - if the car has a full frame - can you still use plates? I would actually prefer plates in the drives cabin and then maybe direct weld to the rear and/or front frame (just to make it a little easier to access?).

On the front bracing, I have to ask the SPO guys again. It seemed like if I actually ran it in SCCA club race in SPO class, I might need the front bracing per GT-1 rules? The rest of the classes (HRG/etc) do not appear to need the front bracing.

On your point about the time-trial/club race safety.
If I have the fuel cell and fire safety/supression system I should be OK there I think - correct?

The HRG rules seem to be a little more flexible since, so I'd mostly like to run the GTO occasionally in the HRG and the hillclimbs. I'll have my Spec-Racer-Ford ready for the summer as well so I can take that club racing!

Please let me know how if there is anything else I should know safety/spec wise that would require cutting/welding/etc for hill-climb. I am going to keep re-reading the GCRs and supps as well. I'd hate to get to Tech and find out I need something that is not easy to fix on the spot :(

Thanks!

Steve
Rich Rock
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:56 pm

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by Rich Rock »

Steve,

I strongly recommend the plates on the frame instead of welding the tubing directly to that 40 year old steel. I always weld plates to the frame whenever I build a custom bar or cage. Full-width ones, to take advantage of the inherent strength of the vertical planes of the box frame. I also put some holes in each plate and plug weld to the top of the frame in addition to welding the entire perimeter.

First step when I build a bar or cage is figuring out exactly where the seat(and driver) will be. The whole thing gets built based on that.

Rich Rock.
SteveTC
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:19 pm
Location: Hunlock Creek, PA 18621

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by SteveTC »

Hi Rich,

I agree with the points you made. That would be my preference as well, just didn't word it correctly I guess.
Steve, if you ever want a set of eyes on the car, depending on where you live, there are a few of us that would help you out long before an event so there are no surprises. Fire system and fuel cell are good to have as I found out this past year, but if they are there, they must be up to date. Only other thing would be a correctly wired battery cut off if it is needed in the class.

Steve
sspano01
Novice
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 17
Current Racecar: 1967 Shelby Cobra Replica
1966 Mustang Convertible
1967 Pontiac GTO

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by sspano01 »

hi guys, thanks! i am in upstate ny...outside of Ithaca new york. I'm about 90 minutes from Scranton. I still have family/friends down there and I visit a few times a year.

And right! The cutoff switch, externally accessible. thanks :)

So on the frame/cage mounting.
Would you then suggest an "L" shape plate on the frame. Where one side of the "L" attached to the veritcal part of the frame and the "top part" of the "L" was used to weld the cage tube at? And then perimeter weld the "L" and drill and plug weld as well? That makes more sense to me than trying to weld right to the top side of a 45 year old frame...but the frame on the GTO is in good shape so that is at least a plus.

I think on regular uni-body cars, you can put a small plate / large plate combo around the factory floor sheet metal and/or "L" bracket welding into the sheet metal as well. However, someone said that if the car has a full frame, you must attached to the frame and not with any welding to the body metal? I guess because the body could detach from the frame where as in a uni-body there is nothing to detach?

Maybe I will make another drawing of an "L" bracket weld and post that up for comment.

And its probably an "L" rotated 90-degree clockwise, to cover the vertical side and top side of the frame? correct?

Thanks!
Rich Rock
Racer
Posts: 1102
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:56 pm

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by Rich Rock »

Yes, an L-shaped plate would be even better than the top plate alone! You certainly want to use the frame on this car for your attachment points.

As for the master switch, be sure to get the right one if you're using an alternator. And be sure that the switch will "kill" the engine when you flip the switch.

I'm looking forward to seeing this car. I used to have a 1965 GTO convertible. Sold it long ago, before they were worth real money :cry:

Rich
sspano01
Novice
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm
PHA Permanent Number: 17
Current Racecar: 1967 Shelby Cobra Replica
1966 Mustang Convertible
1967 Pontiac GTO

Re: ### Roll Cage Setup

Post by sspano01 »

Right , kill the ignition/power not just "stop charging" ;)

Thanks - I am hoping to have it out for Giants this year. I'm picking up the pace on it! Hopefully will have a cage setup near the end of feb, engine is coming back from the machine shop in a few weeks. new disc brakes, coil-over suspension, and new metal is going on this month. It will be looking like a car again soon!
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