Hankook Z214 C70

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mrevilracing
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Hankook Z214 C70

Post by mrevilracing »

Anyone else experiencing this type of thing?
Image
Image

I've had the tires reversed so the inside is now the outside. You can see what has happened to the sidewall. This happened before Giants and I noticed it after Pagoda. Not sure if it was evident after the year was over last fall or not.

-3.2deg camber
4deg caster
30lbs consistent - yeah, I bleed them all day
3760lbs total car weight, with me in it.
Tires off the car during off season and between races.
All 4 are doing it. 2 purchased last June, 2 purchased in August. Tires heat cycled before use.

30lbs seems to be the optimum pressure for this car. Above 32 and there is a push or a slide. I guess if I can't get this resolved, I might have to go to the Hoosiers. I've already gone to them on the rear due to traction problems off the start. Got most of that worked out now that I've gone from a 275 width to a 295 width tire.

Yeah, I know....shouldn't mix manufacturers, right? Don't bother with that arguement. I ran 1.4sec faster at Giants this year with NOTHING but a tire change and a harder launch due to the wider tires.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by gdh57 »

Is it possible that your tires are simply rubbing on the inside? Those pics look very similar to the rear tires on my street Scirocco after I switched to Falken Azenis 205 50 15. Not all 205 50 15 tires are exactly the same width, and the Azenis were slightly wider than the tires I had on previously, and were rubbing on the springs. 5mm spacers in the rear solved the problem.

Grace
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by mrevilracing »

There is a rub mark. However, it's from occasionally rubbing the brake line. The 9" rims they are mounted on don't rub anything else. The 9.5" wide street tires/wheels hit my sway bar. Thanks for asking, Grace.
RIP Joe, my friend.

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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by neonracer193 »

Hey steve,

I dont know much about tires, but it seems that is a blatant tire failure and if it was not a racing tire i think you could ask for your money back. It looks like the side wall is almost ready to twist away from the tread surface. And in the first picture you can see a crack that follows the mold mark of that long oval. I know you say you get the best results from 30 psi, but do you think maybe these particular tires cant support the weight of the car without the sidewalls flexing too much causing the cracking? I dont know just a thought.
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by georgebowland »

Answer....Hoosiers......made in Indiana by the world's largest race tire maker, and made by American workers, working for American owners and paying taxes here.
George
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by mrevilracing »

neonracer193 wrote:Hey steve,

I dont know much about tires, but it seems that is a blatant tire failure and if it was not a racing tire i think you could ask for your money back. It looks like the side wall is almost ready to twist away from the tread surface. And in the first picture you can see a crack that follows the mold mark of that long oval. I know you say you get the best results from 30 psi, but do you think maybe these particular tires cant support the weight of the car without the sidewalls flexing too much causing the cracking? I dont know just a thought.
I can't dispute that thought at all. I'm still waiting for Hankook to get back to me.
georgebowland wrote:Answer....Hoosiers......made in Indiana by the world's largest race tire maker, and made by American workers, working for American owners and paying taxes here.
George
Won't dispute that either. That is a discussion that would go off on so many tangents that the site would be overloaded and shut down.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by Steve Tumolo »

Oof, that is pretty scary looking!!! I am running Hankook's as well but I have the C50 compound. I have checked all 8 of mine and they are fine (as of now). Just to clarify, did you turn the tires inside out and then run them for a bit or did you take them off and notice the cracks? Please keep me informed as to what happens with Hankook!!

PS: No doubt Hoosier is THE BEST hands down they are also not cheap and very FRAGILE!! One good lock up can destroy a set in a heartbeat. But that is also what makes them so good. You can expect to take seconds off of your time on most hills with a fresh set of A6 tires.
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by mrevilracing »

Hankook says:
DOT date code on the first photo is 1105. The tire was built during the 11th week of 2005 which means it's 4 1/2 years old. Race tires don't contain anti-oxidants in the tread and sidewall compounds like passenger car tires, so the age of the tire may be one of the causes. The cracking is occurring in the tread skirt area. The tread tappers down to a thin area that overlaps the upper sidewall. As long as the cracks don't go down all the way through the tread skirt and the sidewall to the ply cords, you can still safely run the tires. As long as that's the case, it's basically a cosmetic defect, not a performance defect. If the cracking gets worse, you may need to increase inflation pressure in order to decrease the sidewall deflection. You said you're running 30-32lbs. That's ok for a cold starting pressure, but it should be closer to 40 psi hot at the end of a run.
I ran them at 30psi at Giants. They really don't like more pressure for this car. When I hit 32, I am sliding. I want to stick. However, I beat the crap out of them at Giants so if they were gonna fail, the S's would have been the place.

Steve, I did turn them around. The cracks were on the inside. I had to turn the tires because the negative camber was really wearing the insides. So, to get a little more life out of them, I had them turned around. The Hoosiers were the key to me launching...not to mention, the width change from 275 to 295 just in the rear. I left the 275width tires in the front. Believe it or not, the car handled very well. NO performance changes from last year to this and I ran 1.4sec faster. I believe some of that was the launch. I left at 3k instead of 1800rpm. The wide Hoosiers didn't spin but I did slip the clutch some. They were rotating between the chock in the front and the chock in the back. I was more careful when it was in the back and tried to slip just a bit more so I didn't induce tire spin off the line. Did it work? I don't know. But I did run 1.4sec faster so I was doing something right.

In my contact with Hankook, I asked when they were going to make a wider tire.
Hankook race tire distributors have requested larger sizes in the Z214 tire line, but at this point in time, I'm not aware of any plans to do it.
was the response. NOT what I wanted to hear at all. I may have to switch to Hoosiers all around because I am targetting 315's in the rear and 295's in the front. That is a budget constraint for this year due to the tires/fenders/spacers and studs I need to get the 295's up front. Not to mention I need 2 more rims to mount them on as well as the tires.

So, we'll see how Duryea goes. I am shooting for 124sec. Crazy Mark did it in his M3 last year and I'm shooting for it this year. Speaking of crazy Mark.......he built another mustang. Oh boy is he a nut. Not as fast as the supercharged one but it'll be something to watch. Between him and Dan Reed, the spectators are gonna have quite a show.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by Steve Tumolo »

Thanks for the follow up Steve. I know I am running a different compound than you but I also found that they work best at a pretty low 28 to 30 psi cold pressure. I have to be real careful for the first couple laps in a roadrace then they start to come in and hook up well. I can really throw the car around and they never get "Greasy" from heating up. They remind me of the GoodYear GS-CS's I used to run.

I don't know how much of a spacer you are looking at but have you checked out the Maximum Motorsports spacers? They are not cheap but they are a nice billet piece with studs already pressed in. You can kill 2 birds with one stone and not have to worry about getting longer studs.
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by mrevilracing »

No problem with the follow up.

I don't know why they stick better at lower pressures. I tried the recommended and my car slid all over the place so that isn't gonna happen. I guess the reason for the cracking is stress from the weight of the car and -3.2 deg camber. So much weight is on that edge of the tire. I really don't want to drop camber. It corners really well there. But I also battle with the fact that I can eat the inside of the tire really fast if I'm kicking in the anti-locks. Yeah, I know....that's cheating(so to speak). Hehe. But I'd be flat spotting tires constantly without the anti-locks.

As far as the spacers go, I'm just looking at 1/2" hubcentric spacers. I'll already have to plan to flare the fenders a bit. The spacers aren't that bad. $75 for a pair. The studs will cost about the same for the front going with the ARP studs. Or I can go with the Moroso ones at $14.95/5. I think ARP makes pretty good stuff so I'm gonna go with them.

By the way, if you need some calipers(cobra/mach 1) these are an EXCELLENT price: http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/produ ... 672cPath=6. I am bumming that I just replaced mine and it cost me almost twice that. The pads that come with them are ok for street driving but make NO mistake, they are only good for 1 lap at Jefferson. I know from 1st hand.
RIP Joe, my friend.

Must go faster!!!!
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Re: Hankook Z214 C70

Post by Steve Tumolo »

Wow Steve thanks for that website!!! First time I have ever seen it. It might be time to upgrade the brakes on one of my other Mustangs. I am running calipers and pads from The Brakeman on my racecar. We were allowed to switch over to real racing calipers and rotors a few years ago and I made the switch. It is so nice to buy purpose made racing rotors for $40 a piece and they last for a season plus of roadraces and hillclimbs. Heck I am running the same pads now for 3 seasons!!

Oh and I have no idea how much you abuse your brakes but one of the big reasons they allowed up to switch from the PBR style calipers to what we have now is that the PBR brakes were "clamshelling". Guys were finding that the calipers were bending open at the bottom of the caliper creating uneven pad wear. The top of the pad would wear and the bottom (closest to the hub) would have alot less. It is thought this is from the abuse that comes from stopping such heavy cars in short distances. The pistons just start to bend the caliper apart. You might not notice it happening but it is something you might want to put on the pre-season checklist just in case. And if you ever get a set from your local parts store check them carefully because quite a few roadracers would try to get replacements and they were finding that out of 6 calipers 2 were already clamshelled.
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